Why carry without bullet in the chamber? - Page 20
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:45 AM   #191
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Your answer make it pretty obvious you are playing the odds. That's great for the lottery, great for bingo...but I think it's foolish to play the odds with your life....and there is a HUGE difference between taking a safety off and chambering a round....and you know that.

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Old 08-11-2013, 01:47 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybuddy View Post
No matter how you try to "quantify" this..It's extremely subjective as the vast, vast majority of us will never find ourselves in a shoot or be killed life and death situation. There are a zillion what ifs that can be stated and you bring up two of the most logical. Vigilance will reduce the chances but never eliminate them. You can always chamber in higher risk situations/environments also. You can't eliminate accidental discharges either and IMO, the chances of an accidental discharge are as high as that small percentage of time that chambering will make a difference. Simply my opinion. Yours is well stated and well thought out and I respect that also. I had a hard time deciding on a carry weapon for this very reason. If mine had a safety, I'd chamber...then there would be the threads about whether to leave the safety on or off
carrying chambered comes down to training and proper gun handling. millions of LEO's carry chambered everyday with no problems. yes the occasional AD/ND does occur, but that still comes down to proper training and proper gun handling. complacency plays a role in AD/ND situations too.

it also comes down to proper training with the style or platform of pistol a person carries. the type of safety is different from a Glock to a 1911. both require different techiniques in use and operation. a person needs to train with the one they carry and understand the differences.

how can you know when something becomes high risk? i am sorry but i just can't agree with that. a situation can go from low risk to high risk in the blink of an eye and sometimes it has nothing to do with where you are.

i am not going to tell someone how to carry, that's not my job or decision to make for others. i just want to point out where i see what i feel are errors in this way of thinking and why i feel the way i do. and point out what i feel is a better way.

i will also point out this. if you carried a six shot revolver, would you only carry five rounds with the hammer down on an empty chamber? a revolver has no safety, and LEO's carried them for many years before semi-autos became the standard.
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Old 08-11-2013, 03:23 AM   #193
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You know there was as reason that Israel did the dead chamber thing., Multiple type of handgun, not much training in the beginning. Now it's entrenched. But how many of you top dog operators train on that dead chamber all the time like those that you like to talk about so much?

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Yes, there is a chance that those few seconds could be precious BUT I believe that to be statistically remote and I'm accepting of that risk.
It's pretty unlikely statistically that you will use a handgun on your defense while bopping Walmart around in your board shorts but you still carry.
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Old 08-11-2013, 03:33 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybuddy
I don't have one chambered in my carry weapon:
1) it doesn't have a safety
2) I'm still 1000% better off than most folks who don't carry
3) it adds a few seconds to a life changing decision
Yes, there is a chance that those few seconds could be precious BUT I believe that to be statistically remote and I'm accepting of that risk.
If it were just my life in my hands as I was taking those few seconds to make that life changing decision, I might would be slightly more inclined to agree with you (still doubt I would). But my wife does not have her CWP yet, and one day we will have kids. I want to make sure I'm 100% prepared to do what I need to do to keep them as safe as I possibly can.
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Old 08-11-2013, 03:41 AM   #195
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I carry chambered. I have a safety and some days (neck and arm strength, beat me up all y'all want) I am not 100% confident that I can rack the slide in an instant. So if it comes down to a me or the bad guy I flip off the safety and ready to go. Instead of hoping I don't get in that situation on a bad day for my neck and arms I can defend myself and kids x 18 rounds without hoping I can pull the slide. I'd hate to be stuck with a small club at close range vs. within 20 feet of having an attacker coming at me and mine and stopping them.

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Old 08-11-2013, 03:50 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenGlamis
I carry chambered. I have a safety and some days (neck and arm strength, beat me up all y'all want) I am not 100% confident that I can rack the slide in an instant. So if it comes down to a me or the bad guy I flip off the safety and ready to go. Instead of hoping I don't get in that situation on a bad day for my neck and arms I can defend myself and kids x 18 rounds without hoping I can pull the slide. I'd hate to be stuck with a small club at close range vs. within 20 feet of having an attacker coming at me and mine and stopping them.
Nothing wrong with not always being able to rack the slide. My wife has trouble with it too. Strength has less to do with it than technique.

It's all about the push/pull method. Push down on the pistol grip, while simultaneously pulling back on the slide.

I'll see if I can find a good YouTube video showing what I mean.

(Or just carry a revolver )

Edit: found a good one

http://youtu.be/kbayNc6D9HY
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:05 AM   #197
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Train as you fight! If you are not comfortable carrying a ccw with a round in the chamber then fine.

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Old 08-11-2013, 09:22 AM   #198
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There was a news story not too long ago about an attack in Central Florida. It was an ambush style attack with little or no apparent warning for the victim. Unknown to the attacker, the intended victim was armed. The intended victim was carrying a Kel Tech PF9 on his strong side with a round in the chamber. As the attacker was trying to smash the sidewalk with the intended victims head the intended victim was able to draw and fire one round which ended the attack. It is very unlikely that with the attacker straddling the intended victim's chest he would have been able to chamber a round and then fire.

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Old 08-11-2013, 12:57 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc3402 View Post
There was a news story not too long ago about an attack in Central Florida. It was an ambush style attack with little or no apparent warning for the victim. Unknown to the attacker, the intended victim was armed. The intended victim was carrying a Kel Tech PF9 on his strong side with a round in the chamber. As the attacker was trying to smash the sidewalk with the intended victims head the intended victim was able to draw and fire one round which ended the attack. It is very unlikely that with the attacker straddling the intended victim's chest he would have been able to chamber a round and then fire.
Very good point...I would think, however, that even those who believe in not chambering would have one in the pipe if they were out patrolling a crime ridden neighborhood. There were literally two victims with this and both their lives have been destroyed.
Below is a quote from CNN..note that trained agents had more accidental than intended discharges. We carry to reduce personal risk, not increase it in another way. In aviation, there is an outright arrogance by many pilots discussing accidents inasmuch as they lump all accidents as being caused by stupid pilots with poor training or bad judgement. Sometimes they are right but most times it's just a defense mechanism to deal with a high risk environment. Unfortunately, by writing off others mistakes, pilots continue to make the same ones over and over. I'll bet there are a lot of folks carrying who think an accidental discharge could never happen to them for the same reasons.
Again, below, more accidental discharges than intended firings by trained personnel. Would surely be worse with the general public.

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(CNSNews.com) – Special agents at the IRS accidentally shot their firearms 11 times between 2009 and 2011, and at least three of the cases “may have resulted in property damage or personal injury.”

Agents actually fired their guns accidently more often than they intentionally fired them in the field, according to an audit by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA).
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:03 PM   #200
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Quote:
There was a news story not too long ago about an attack in Central Florida. It was an ambush style attack with little or no apparent warning for the victim. Unknown to the attacker, the intended victim was armed. The intended victim was carrying a Kel Tech PF9 on his strong side with a round in the chamber. As the attacker was trying to smash the sidewalk with the intended victims head the intended victim was able to draw and fire one round which ended the attack. It is very unlikely that with the attacker straddling the intended victim's chest he would have been able to chamber a round and then fire.
Yes and if I could be bothered I am sure I could find an example where someone accidently shot themselves or someone else because they forgot they had a round in the chamber. I witnessed a N/D where the person had a round in the chamber I remember because the bullet grazed my knee. He hadn't a clue about firearms which concerns me when I see posters on this forum telling people that the only to carry is in con 1 without knowing the background of the person they are advising their training or lack of training.
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