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Old 12-18-2012, 03:54 PM   #11
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Nothing in that purse is worth the lady's life, my life or the perps life.

I agree with most, but not all. If more purse snatchers were to loose their life while snatching. I'm guessing there would be a lot less snatchers.
Same with car thieves. They should be treated as horse thieves were in the 1800's. Hung by the neck till dead. And in public.
Am I just a mean ole fart??

I agree with you...

but I don't feel strong enough about it to spend time behind bars. Since we live in a politically correct, touchy feely society, chances are if a Jury feels that you were not on the verge of losing your own life, they'll convict you of some degree of Manslaughter, especially after the crooks teary eyed mom/wife/kid/whoever, gets on the stand and says "he was a great guy, he just was down on his luck and needed money to buy his kid a birthday present--he wasn't going to hurt anybody"
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:48 PM   #12
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If I have to draw my firearm, then I see no reason for a restraint mechanism.

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Old 12-18-2012, 05:53 PM   #13
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What about for use when a gun isn't called for. Those situations where you pulling a gun would be excessive force.

Example: a thief running out of store, you have opportunity to catch him and help proprietor detain said BG.

... and other such similar crimes where deadly force is not required and could get you in trouble. Do you chose to stay out of it? I'd like to think I wouldn't. Never been in such a circumstance but doing the right thing isn't always about the severity of life or death.

Just curious is all.

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Old 12-18-2012, 05:57 PM   #14
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What about for use when a gun isn't called for. Those situations where you pulling a gun would be excessive force.

Example: a thief running out of store, you have opportunity to catch him and help proprietor detain said BG.

... and other such similar crimes where deadly force is not required and could get you in trouble. Do you chose to stay out of it? I'd like to think I wouldn't. Never been in such a circumstance but doing the right thing isn't always about the severity of life or death.

Just curious is all.
You makew a great point. There are many crimes that are committed (like purse snatching) that do nor constitute a life threat but I think if I could do something to prevent them from happening I would. Like reporting a shoplifter I observe, or maybe tripping up a purse snatcher who happens to run by me on his escape. No need to pull your gun and hold him at gunpoint, but if you have the means to restrain him with little risk then why not do it?
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:05 PM   #15
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You makew a great point. There are many crimes that are committed (like purse snatching) that do nor constitute a life threat but I think if I could do something to prevent them from happening I would. Like reporting a shoplifter I observe, or maybe tripping up a purse snatcher who happens to run by me on his escape. No need to pull your gun and hold him at gunpoint, but if you have the means to restrain him with little risk then why not do it?
That's my thought.

Another instance that came to mind is something like a car jacking or purse snatching, but what if the BG doesn't pull a gun and point it at you. Rather he lifts the shirt to reveal a gun, no words or actions to indicate any progression... is the showing threatening enough? Do you escalate by drawing yours first, isn't that grounds for prosecution?
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:11 PM   #16
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That's my thought.

Another instance that came to mind is something like a car jacking or purse snatching, but what if the BG doesn't pull a gun and point it at you. Rather he lifts the shirt to reveal a gun, no words or actions to indicate any progression... is the showing threatening enough? Do you escalate by drawing yours first, isn't that grounds for prosecution?
Depends on the specific situation. Brandishing (showing a gun under your shirt) is to me a lethal threat. Here in CA it would not go well in court if I were to have to defend myself.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:19 PM   #17
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Once they come for my pistols, shotguns and rifles, I would say thats where its time to push back.

Other than that, in the wake of what just occurred. I can live without AR-15s and AK-47s. Im sure thats not the popular vote around here, but its my compromise.

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Old 12-18-2012, 06:20 PM   #18
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Depends on the specific situation. Brandishing (showing a gun under your shirt) is to me a lethal threat. Here in CA it would not go well in court if I were to have to defend myself.
Yeah. To me it shows a lack of nuts. Can't think of a way to handle, because I'm not giving up anything for idle. Maybe that's where something like one of these Tactical pens could come in handy. I think a jury would be hard pressed to say a pen or fistfull of keys is more force than the means and malicious intent of the use of a firearm.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:01 PM   #19
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If someone brandishes a gun and they already have hostile intent, that to me justifies deadly force, and it will later be left to 12 peers to decide whether it was right or wrong.

These other scenarios you mention, about carjackers, shoplifters, purse snatchers...

That's all a bunch of vigilante type stuff IMO. You can sometimes best serve yourself, your community, and the police by just being the best witness that you can be, up to and including taking pictures or video.

If yourself or no one else is in immediate danger of death or bodily harm, I will personally take no action, but I will take one helluva description. If I do any chasing, it will only be to get a plate number before they get out of range of my MKI Eyeball visual sensory device.

Citizen's arrest is legal in many places, and I think that in some places there is even legislation in effect that will protect a person making a citizen's arrest if it has been determined it was wrongful. But IMO, it would take a very desperate situation for me.

If a death or major bodily harm has already occurred, or is very likely to occur... such as a murder, maiming or rape... I think that's where my line may be.

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Old 12-18-2012, 09:57 PM   #20
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If someone brandishes a gun and they already have hostile intent, that to me justifies deadly force, and it will later be left to 12 peers to decide whether it was right or wrong.

These other scenarios you mention, about carjackers, shoplifters, purse snatchers...

That's all a bunch of vigilante type stuff IMO. You can sometimes best serve yourself, your community, and the police by just being the best witness that you can be, up to and including taking pictures or video.

If yourself or no one else is in immediate danger of death or bodily harm, I will personally take no action, but I will take one helluva description. If I do any chasing, it will only be to get a plate number before they get out of range of my MKI Eyeball visual sensory device.

Citizen's arrest is legal in many places, and I think that in some places there is even legislation in effect that will protect a person making a citizen's arrest if it has been determined it was wrongful. But IMO, it would take a very desperate situation for me.

If a death or major bodily harm has already occurred, or is very likely to occur... such as a murder, maiming or rape... I think that's where my line may be.
Interesting thoughts. I can't say your points don't ring of a wisdom and truth, and I guess we can play the what if game until we're blue in the face. But, in the end, I can't go along with dismissing it as vigilantism, that would require seeking it out. These instances are simply scenarios about right place, right time and right to do. If the snatcher gets away could he not later pull an armed robbery and kill someone? I don't know trip... could've, should've, would've and between the two of us I'm sure a perp would wish he'd just stayed in bed. I won't knock ya for doing what you think to be right and I probably won't ever have to prove what I think is. Enjoy your tea m'friend.
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