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-   -   Where's the line? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/wheres-line-78733/)

BeyondTheBox 12-18-2012 05:22 AM

All this Rambo talk about carrying extra mags and multiple guns accessible to each hand in case the primary is out of commission for some reason has gotten me to thinking about other unnecessary accessories we could justify adding to the tool belt.

I'm guessing most of us have knives on us, or multitool. But what about a need for placing someone under citizen's arrest? It only works if you can detain the perp and most BGs arent going to sit still while we call the cops. So what about carrying Cuffs or zipties?

I laugh at all these overthetopizations, but seriously though, might not be a terrible idea to at least keep a pair in the car. Even if you shoot a bad guy it might not be bad enough he can't attempt a getaway. Why not just reach in trunk to cuff him and wait for police and ambulance?

Probably useless in the end, but so could be my guns. Likelihood is I'll never need any of it. The whole point is preparedness is it not? So where does it stop? Where's the line drawn for you?

I've just now drawn my line at a single gun on me for personal and home, with shotgun under bed, and one in car. Also a folding knife as simply a tool. That's it, no more frantic Rambos getting into my head and driving me further paranoid. I'm bad enough as is. Lol

Vikingdad 12-18-2012 05:33 AM

Pretty soon they will be banning zipties "just in case". I carry bags of those extra large zipties because I use them by the hundreds for one of the jobs I do and they are handy to have around. I was once told by a cop that some cops would consider them to be a weapon. Seriously? I asked him how they could possibly be a weapon and he said they could be used to restrain somebody and I responded with "Oh really? Hmm. I have never thought of that. So. Now what if there was somebody in serious need of being restrained and I put them to use?"

He said that I should just call 911 and let the police handle it. Yeah. OK dude. I'll do that.

Marlinman 12-18-2012 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikingdad (Post 1055964)
Pretty soon they will be banning zipties "just in case". I carry bags of those extra large zipties because I use them by the hundreds for one of the jobs I do and they are handy to have around. I was once told by a cop that some cops would consider them to be a weapon. Seriously? I asked him how they could possibly be a weapon and he said they could be used to restrain somebody and I responded with "Oh really? Hmm. I have never thought of that. So. Now what if there was somebody in serious need of being restrained and I put them to use?"

He said that I should just call 911 and let the police handle it. Yeah. OK dude. I'll do that.

They also make dandy garrots;) the Stasi of KGB times used a metal ziptie for garrots. It was their calling card in fact.

trip286 12-18-2012 05:58 AM

I draw the line at my gun, keys, cell phone, mason jar of sweet tea.

I AIN'T RESTRAINING SH!T!!!!!!! My job as a father and a free man is to make it home to my son, everything else can kiss my fuzzy white ass.

I will not attempt to restrain, I will not attempt to detain, and I will not attempt to chase. Cowboy boots ain't good for running, and if I've had to draw, chances are he'll be showing up at a hospital eventually anyway. I believe it's SOP across the country to report any GSW that walks through the door of the ER, and the police will have my report to corroborate whether it goes to deadly force or not, I report crimes if/when I see them happen.

SCREW THAT. Hell no. Not just no, but hell no. Way beyond my duty of staying vertical.

Obviously, the situation dictates. If letting someone run puts others in obvious danger, then I'll have to change my plan of attack. But if they're just bookin it down the street after snatching some old lady's purse? Sorry lady. I reckon you just lost a purse. No I don't care if there was a chihuahua in it. I guess you lost a purse AND a rodent.

If they're armed and going into a crowded building, action MUST be taken.

But dammit, why can't things be simple? I'm not a crime fighter. Not a super hero.

Squawk 12-18-2012 06:37 AM

Thank you Trip. That made my night.

trip286 12-18-2012 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squawk (Post 1055990)
Thank you Trip. That made my night.

Quite welcome. I aim to please and sometimes offend. Bonus points if I do both at the same time.

primer1 12-18-2012 11:50 AM

And you enjoy the offending part. Admit it.

70cuda383 12-18-2012 11:52 AM

I agree with the Cowboy Trip.

I carry a CCW because I plan to defend my own life or the life of someone else if in danger. purse snatcher? if he's the normal "cut the strap, grab the bag and run" snatcher, then I say let him run. Ask the lady if she's ok, and offer her my cell phone to call her banks and cancel her cards. Nothing in that purse is worth the lady's life, my life or the perps life.

If I'm in a store or bank and someone is trying to rob it? is there a weapon? if not, then I have no justification to draw mine.

A CCW license allows you to carry for purpose of self defense and the defense of another, not to be a self-imposed super cop. If a perp is in the middle of a crime, It's going to be a hard sell to the Prosecutor/jury that I was in fear for my life if they present a security video of me drawing and running towards the BG and becoming the aggressor.

the number one rule in self defense? withdraw and retreat. create separation. If I do anything, it's going to be while I'm seeking cover and withdrawing. at that point, the BG has a choice. he too can preserve his own life and run away, or engage, in which case, he will be shot until the threat is neutralized.

and neutralized does not mean restrained with cuffs. it means he is either lying on the floor bleeding/dead, or he tucked tail and ran.

the ONLY situation that I would become the aggressor is if I find myself in the middle of another mass shooting at a mall, workplace, whatever, where the gunman will continue to shoot and kill until HE is neutralized.

The thing you have to remember when drawing and engaging...Police are not going to know who the BG is, and who the CCW holder is, especially if the CCW holder who's "Defending" himself appears to be on the offensive.

bottom line, no, I don't see a need for zip ties, cuffs, or anything like that.

towboater 12-18-2012 12:18 PM

Nothing in that purse is worth the lady's life, my life or the perps life.

I agree with most, but not all. If more purse snatchers were to loose their life while snatching. I'm guessing there would be a lot less snatchers.
Same with car thieves. They should be treated as horse thieves were in the 1800's. Hung by the neck till dead. And in public.
Am I just a mean ole fart??

primer1 12-18-2012 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by towboater
Nothing in that purse is worth the lady's life, my life or the perps life.

I agree with most, but not all. If more purse snatchers were to loose their life while snatching. I'm guessing there would be a lot less snatchers.
Same with car thieves. They should be treated as horse thieves were in the 1800's. Hung by the neck till dead. And in public.
Am I just a mean ole fart??

Maybe a little too extreme, imo. Second offence, lose a hand, like they do it on the other side of the world. Their theft rate is very low, compared to the US, we reward theives with exercise centers, three square meals, cable tv, etc.


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