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Old 09-16-2013, 03:13 PM   #21
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I'm going to share my experiences with kids and guns, and they by no means apply to everyone.

My "home protection" pistol is my "self protection" pistol. It's on my side, or within arms reach at all times, except when I'm at work. Even at work, I'm still armed, just not with a gun. It's a knife and a fire hydrant wrench...

My son is 7. I've been able to trust him around guns since he was at least 5, maybe earlier. At first, he was more afraid of daddy's belt than the gun, should he be caught messing around with it. But, as he got older, I began educating him a little more than just "Don't Touch!!", and now he understands that my guns are not toys, and he's simply not big enough to handle them on his own.

He's been desensitized pretty much, through total immersion in gun culture. I take him to gun shows, pawn shops, ranges, anywhere we're allowed to go together. And if we aren't (if HE'S not) allowed in, we go somewhere else.

He makes people stand in awe as he field strips 1911's at gun dealer's tables, and my favorite store's owner likes to randomly hand him guns and say, "can you figure this one out?" then we stand back and watch him mess with it until he's figured out the "manual of arms" for that particular gun, how it works, and how to operate it. He knows the muzzle velocity of an M16, mostly because his mind is like a steel trap. He asked me, "how fast does a bullet come out of an M16?" so I told him, "about 3100 feet per second." And he told all his classmates, his teacher, and his principal. He knows how to check that the soldering on a double barrel is still good. He knows how bolt action rifles work, semi autos, revolvers (DA and SA), and a couple of semi auto pistols.

A few days ago, I left my 1911 sitting on my desk at work, (against my work regs) where he was doing some artsy stuff (he was drawing pictures of bomber jets). I did some work around the office, and knew damn well that he would not even touch my loaded 1911. Sure enough, he didn't. Later, I let him work on my slide stop. He filed the hard corners off for me so that it would holster easier.

Education, education, education... exposure, exposure, exposure...
If a gun has no "mystique", there is little to no interest in playing around with it. This has been my experience, and certainly is not a one size fits all tactic.

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Old 09-16-2013, 06:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by trip286
Education, education, education... exposure, exposure, exposure...
If a gun has no "mystique", there is little to no interest in playing around with it. This has been my experience, and certainly is not a one size fits all tactic.
Good thoughts! I think that if you couple education and exposure with proper discipline it IS a 1 size fits all approach. I think my family's education and experience with firearms goes to prove that. I have 7 brothers and sisters, all of who can shoot. None of whom have ever handled Dad's firearms without permission. (Except for once. Which I will mention later.)

My Dad had me shooting a little .25 ACP before I had training wheels off my bike. I was curious about all of his guns but I knew he'd show me whatever I wanted to know so I never had a reason to go and meddle with them when he wasn't around. At 12 years old he had convinced his buddies at the local PD to let me sit in the back of their police academy if I kept my mouth shut. I ended up as their "mascot" and got taken on calls, to the range, to specialized training classes, and trained with the SRT every month as a "bad guy."

Within six months, if Dad and I stopped in a bad area (which we did a lot due to our volunteer work plus the route to all the entertainment/businesses in town) he'd pull his ankle gun off and tell me to strap it on and not show anyone unless I was shooting them. Then he'd take another gun out of the glovebox and shove it in his pocket. I'm not advocating this, its just my experience.

Dad was shooting guns and piloting boats in diapers. So was my uncle. And theres old pics in a photo album to prove it. So were all 7 of my brothers and sisters. Not a single one of us ever went and messed with Dads guns, and we knew where every gun, every magazine and every box of ammo in the house was. And how to use most of them proficiently.

All of us have completely different personality types. All of us had completely different "discipline" issues. All of us now have a healthy love, understanding and respect for guns. And not one of us ever messed with one the wrong way. We've all done stupid stuff and made bad mistakes. None of us EVER with a firearm. Even a quick accidental muzzle sweep or a safety off at the wrong time meant a sore arm, sore butt, and an immediate empty handed walk back to the house. The slide and barrel could be in pieces in Dads hand when we did it. It didnt matter. We were immediately sore, embarrassed and walking back to the house. It was a long walk. Dad and the other kids rode ATVs back.

Thats why I think the principle of education exposure and DISCIPLINE is "one size fits all" Dad introduced each of us to different types of firearms (and life) "education" based on our personality. And now that I'm older he talks to me about it. He purposefully introduced each of us to different types of education and experiences with life and with firearms based on what he saw our personalities shaping out to be. And it worked.

All our "education" and familiarity with various firearms came into play a few years back when 2 trucks full of punks followed one of us to Dad's from a restaurant saying they were going to "whip everybody's *ss."

Everybody else happened to be hanging out at Dad's when we got the phone call. When the punks pulled in to Dad's behind our pickup truck the whole street got blocked off and in less than 10 seconds they were looking down the barrels of more guns than they'd ever seen in their life. (Including one of my genius brothers posted up in a second story window with a scoped 30-06 and a cowboy hat.) It looked like something out of an action movie. They all got slammed on the hood of the trucks that day. Gun education payed off. Dad was so proud. He didn't tell anybody what to do. Everybody already knew what to do and how to do it.

Then Dad sat every one of those punks down in the middle of the road and "educated" them for a good half hour and then sent them on their way. That situation could have went south really really fast without an overwhelming show of force. The deputies didn't show up till 20 minute after Dad piled them into their trucks and sent them home to their mommas. The deps weren't surprised. They just laughed, told him "good job Rev" (his police academy/gym nickname) got back in their cars and rolled up the street.

I asked around to some of my younger brothers friends at the high school, the punks ratted themselves out at school and everybody knew "the wrong house to mess with." They said that group of guys had followed more than 1 person home and had sent two people in the hospital with broken limbs.

This is why you shoudn't "hide" your firearms from your kids. This is why you should trust to education and discipline. One day you might need them to back you up and you won't have time to show them where your guns are and how to use them then. Education starts as soon as they can pick up an object without putting it in their mouth. It ends when you die.

If you have to hide your guns from your kids on a daily basis, you may want to examine how "education" and "discipline" need to be improved in your house. Instead of looking for a fancy (and ugly) bedside gun safe. Education, exposure and discipline is cheaper and lasts longer than any gun safe you'll ever buy.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

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Old 09-18-2013, 08:38 AM   #23
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If you can afford it,a good home security system with door and window,and motion sensors you can arm at night,away,or on vacation will help.A gun safe shouldnt have to break your budget and for starters ,you can get one of those Stack On gun cabinets for $99 at Walmart that you can bolt to the floor and wall.No safe is really burglar proof,but bolting down a gun vault safe to the floor under your bed would make the BG have to spend more time than he has to trying to take your safe,or try cracking it open.Most burglars want to be in and out as quickly as they can from what I have known.But for sure a home security system like ADT,Brinks,etc.

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Old 09-18-2013, 11:12 AM   #24
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I also have night stands that have a hidden drawer inside of another drawer. If you don't already know it is there...you wouldn't find it. Very cool. I leave my carry gun in there at night. I take it with me every morning.
No offense Rick, but a secret drawer you don't think anyone will find? Kids and Mr. Bad Guy find them all the time.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:39 AM   #25
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That's exactly how I plan on teaching my kids about guns when they're a tiny bit older (one is almost two, the other was just born). Introduce them to it and let them handle it and whatnot, so there's no curiosity. Teach them the rules and even show them what guns can do (via a watermelon or something). Take away the curiosity and there won't be a problem as long as the kids in question are mature enough for such things.

Basically I believe if most children were taught about guns from an early age, there would be less of a stigma against guns when they become adults. If certain gun-grabbing politicians had been positively introduced at an early age, they might not be trying to take everyone's guns away.
The Male adults on both sides of my family felt the same way. Dad & several of my Uncles got started early on me. I was shooting at 8, flying at 12, and running away from Momma's home cooking to chase bad guys at 19...what can I say except "here I am, send me, if not me, then Who?"
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:44 PM   #26
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No offense Rick, but a secret drawer you don't think anyone will find? Kids and Mr. Bad Guy find them all the time.
Burglaries were a pretty hot crime in the city where I got my start. We used to drive around shining alley lights in people's yards trying to spot feet sticking out of windows.

I never worked a burglary where the bad guy ripped night stands apart looking for secret drawers.

Usually burglaries are quick, focused events. The burglar follows a predetermined pattern through the home in search of a specific set of objects that has a high street value. Electronics and pills were the two hottest items. Cash(duh) and jewelry were also hot items.

Guns were way down at the bottom of the list. If they took a gun it was usually because it was found while looking for something else. Or it was displayed in a glass case on the wall. Even when guns were in plain sight a lot of criminals ignored them. Taking a gun during a burglary elevates the crime to a violent or aggravated charge in most states. And if the criminal is a convicted felon, it also means at least 2 or 3 charges being added if/when they're apprehended.

As far as all these ugly little safes people keep posting about, in a burglary I've seen people rip those small safes off of nightstands and drag them off hoping there's cash or jewelry inside. They don't bother breaking into the safe when they're there, they just take the whole thing and roll out. Then you lose your gun AND an expensive ugly bedside safe. And if you bolted it to your nightstand you lose the nightstand too when they gouge and rip it to pieces breaking the safe loose on the way out.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

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Old 09-18-2013, 09:54 PM   #27
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As far as all these ugly little safes people keep posting about, in a burglary I've seen people rip those small safes off of nightstands and drag them off hoping there's cash or jewelry inside. They don't bother breaking into the safe when they're there, they just take the whole thing and roll out. Then you lose your gun AND an expensive ugly bedside safe. And if you bolted it to your nightstand you lose the nightstand too when they gouge and rip it to pieces breaking the safe loose on the way out.
This is my sister's logic in never locking her car. Some kid broke her jeep window once to get something from the jeep. She had to buy a window that cost much more than the items taken. Now she usually just leaves her car unlocked.

I can't get with that logic. I will make the thief work for their loot, even if they make a mess in the process. I also keep a very low deductible on my "comprehensive" part of my car insurance that covers break-ins.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:47 AM   #28
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This is my sister's logic in never locking her car. Some kid broke her jeep window once to get something from the jeep. She had to buy a window that cost much more than the items taken. Now she usually just leaves her car unlocked.

I can't get with that logic. I will make the thief work for their loot, even if they make a mess in the process. I also keep a very low deductible on my "comprehensive" part of my car insurance that covers break-ins.
That's putting words in my mouth. My point is not "leave your guns in plain sight and leave your car unlocked." My point is if its burglary your concerned with, "find a better solution." A small safe in plain sight by your bed for a gun is worse than placing the gun itself in plain sight. The criminal might not want the gun. But no matter what he's looking for a safe screams "valuables" and a PORTABLE safe screams "steal me and have fun busting me open at home later."
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

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Old 09-19-2013, 01:44 PM   #29
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My point is if its burglary your concerned with, "find a better solution." A small safe in plain sight by your bed for a gun is worse than placing the gun itself in plain sight. The criminal might not want the gun. But no matter what he's looking for a safe screams "valuables" and a PORTABLE safe screams "steal me and have fun busting me open at home later."
Any gun laying around is valuable for a thief. Not many would leave one behind if possible. You could buy a decent handgun safe and bolt it down. It's better than having the gun just laying there waiting to be picked up. Make them at least have to work at it a little. Of course if you are talking about something that is 16ga steel, that's not going to stop much, but there are much better options available.
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:37 PM   #30
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Any gun laying around is valuable for a thief. Not many would leave one behind if possible. You could buy a decent handgun safe and bolt it down. It's better than having the gun just laying there waiting to be picked up. Make them at least have to work at it a little. Of course if you are talking about something that is 16ga steel, that's not going to stop much, but there are much better options available.
As I have already stated, most burglars avoid firearms because stealing the firearm elevates their charge to violent or aggravated in most states. Especially if they are already convicted felons because if they are caught with it that's another 2-3 charges that will be added. Burglars will snatch a small bedside safe and roll out with it much more often than a gun.

This is based on the burglaries that I have actually worked. Not on my opinion.

The bedside safes ive seen in use were sitting on nightstands. If you buy a 12" tall safe and bolt it to the floor you have to climb out of bed and crawl to it when you need it in an emergency. You might as well get a full sized gun safe and put it in the closet. I never worked a call where someone had one of these bolted to the floor by their bed. If they were in use for a self defense firearm they were always set up for quick access to a firearm.

If there was a bedside safe in plain sight that was not bolted to concrete and it was in an area hit by the burglar, the safe and its contents were always on my initial report as stolen. Plain and simple.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

Last edited by DeltaF; 09-19-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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