Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection > When is it NOT OK to use a firearm to defend yourself?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-30-2013, 10:48 PM   #81
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,170
Liked 5731 Times on 3358 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
No knock search warrants are rare around here these days. SWAT commanders do not like them. An hours long standoff is far preferable. Overtime is just $. Lives are not replaceable. As far as the allegations that innocent people are prosecuted because of things found when the wrong door is kicked? Texas does not have a "good faith" defense to the exclusionary rule. Wrong place, 100 pounds of dope? Nope. Can't prosecute under Texas law. The Feds might pick up the case and argue it in Federal court, but the State will toss it every time.
Smart commanders!

Regarding the 100 pounds of dope: it would take a hardcore pothead to go ahead and toke on weed when the cops had found it the night before. That would be a sign to seek help for the habit.
__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 10:52 PM   #82
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeltaF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Deep South USA
Posts: 2,939
Liked 2191 Times on 1213 Posts
Likes Given: 280

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangello
Smart commanders! Regarding the 100 pounds of dope: it would take a hardcore pothead to go ahead and toke on weed when the cops had found it the night before. That would be a sign to seek help for the habit.
Hell no! Toke away! The more that's smoked the less we can charge you for!
__________________
Quote:
Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."
DeltaF is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 10:57 PM   #83
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Axxe55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East Texas, Texas!
Posts: 26,839
Liked 19563 Times on 11103 Posts
Likes Given: 49220

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
Hell no! Toke away! The more that's smoked the less we can charge you for!
Dammit! now that's some funny $hit!
__________________
Coming from the Village of the Damned.
Resist all Tyranny and Oppression.
Axxe55 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 11:15 PM   #84
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,170
Liked 5731 Times on 3358 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

Funny story: I knew some kids in Memphis who ended up with some officers in their living room after some girls smoked some bidi cigarettes (look like a joint) on the porch in view of traffic (very attractive young ladies). The officers were reportedly a bit overwhelmed and ended up just taking what they could see as evidence, and the residents of course, but a LOT of things were left behind. Their roommate waited for the coast to clear and moved all of his room out, and his stash, and most of the remaining paraphernalia. Good bunch of kids, no serious time awarded.

Having known those guys and how messy they were and how potheaded they were, I can only imagine what those officers were confronted with. Heck, the secondhand from the cloud that was probably hanging in the room probably complicated the seizure process greatly.

__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 02:51 AM   #85
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeltaF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Deep South USA
Posts: 2,939
Liked 2191 Times on 1213 Posts
Likes Given: 280

Default

LoL I can see it now... Out by the units...

"So whose gonna enter all that into evidence."

...crickets....

"Communications be advised all units 98 from this location. 1 16 in custody."

__________________
Quote:
Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."
DeltaF is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 05:22 AM   #86
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Vikingdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains,CA
Posts: 13,354
Liked 7663 Times on 4422 Posts
Likes Given: 9880

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
The guys who do the warrants pop the "other locations" either simultaneously or shortly afterwards. If criminals are "low level" then uniform patrol guys just swear out a warrant on them and wait until they see their car somewhere.

Here no knocks are an end result of hundreds sometimes thousands of hours of surveillance and undercover work, or the culmination of a sting. Are they used for narcotics? Sure. They are also the bread and butter for task forces and specialized divisions which target:
child predators
child pornographers
identity thieves
financial crimes
illegal guns (being sold to violent felons, here there are no raids for redneck joes homeade silencers. Not ever that I remember.)

No knocks are not always hard entry. And a lot of times they usually do knock. They just kick the door in if nobody answers.
Out of that list I see none that would warrant a no-knock dynamic entry. The only exceptions would be if the child predator was suspected to have a child victim in the house with him and the violent felons in possession of firearms (all firearms are illegal in this case). The rest of them couldn't destroy the evidence in the time it would take before they had the place secured.

Oh, and my cousin was busted on a no-knock dynamic entry for an illegal silencer. It was made out of PVC and he fits your description of a "Redneck Joe" with a home-made silencer. He did hard time in San Quentin for it.
__________________

Shoot me an email at vikingdad995@gmail.com

Check out the Firearmstalk Podcasts with Vikingdad and DrFootball! https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/firearms-talk-podcast/id778007899

Quote:
"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
- Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography, page 446.
Vikingdad is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 05:30 AM   #87
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
304inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 251
Liked 79 Times on 55 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM View Post

why would i be shot escaping from police custody. i wouldnt try. police in america do not execute people despite popular urban myth.
You tube video* police shoot unarmed man*, thanks to the advent of cell phone cameras there are more than a few,, the one in particular is " police shoot black man 46 times", ( for the record I effing hate the young Turks,, seriously. ) yes he had a knife,, but watch the video and see if that looked like a urban myth. If somehow you justify that one check police shoot unarmed man 11 times.
Not on you tube but what about the young African man shoot 30+ times in NYC, don't get me wrong I have nothing but respect for 99% of Leos but wonder how much worse this was before video was so readily available?
__________________
304inc is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 01:24 PM   #88
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeltaF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Deep South USA
Posts: 2,939
Liked 2191 Times on 1213 Posts
Likes Given: 280

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingdad
Out of that list I see none that would warrant a no-knock dynamic entry. The only exceptions would be if the child predator was suspected to have a child victim in the house with him and the violent felons in possession of firearms (all firearms are illegal in this case). The rest of them couldn't destroy the evidence in the time it would take before they had the place secured. Oh, and my cousin was busted on a no-knock dynamic entry for an illegal silencer. It was made out of PVC and he fits your description of a "Redneck Joe" with a home-made silencer. He did hard time in San Quentin for it.
The financial crimes and child porn guys? Yeah you're talking about some paranoid dudes there! Anything these people are doing on a computer, the evidence can be trashed right away, and we'd never know. Or at least they can START trashing it at any rate. The time to completely wipe it varies depending on where the information is on their hard drive is.

image-74522771.jpg

Our guys found a computer kindof like this. Except everything was unplugged, and jacks for the wires were inside of the hole of the guitar.

When computer ops cloned the hard drive it had so many dead man triggers. The guy could have started a wipe with the touch of a button if it had been on and had they had to wait to go in.

Computer ops response? "Well, at least we didn't have to dig anything out of the attic insulation this time." The computer ops guy at our regional academy spent 3 hours showing us all the freaky ways those paranoid douchebags can destroy their evidence without us even knowing. And all the different objects they build computers into. It was pretty much anything that has a hole in the middle, or can be hollowed out to have a hole in the middle.

The financial crimes is people's entire lives these jerks have stolen.

And the child porn idiots..... Every kid they can identify is a kid we can remove from a horrible situation. And the computer gurus really do find kids from pictures sometimes. I could never work on a child predator or child porn task force. I'd knock on the door and when they opened it they would take a steel toe to the nuts. Say whatever you want, but at least I know what I cannot handle.
__________________
Quote:
Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

Last edited by DeltaF; 10-31-2013 at 01:32 PM.
DeltaF is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 06:28 PM   #89
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,170
Liked 5731 Times on 3358 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

I will just have to agree to disagree; I don't think evidence preservation is justification for violation of the 4th amendment, not for drugs, not for frauds, not even for the child porn freaks. It is an affront to the fourth amendment that recognizes a citizen's right to be secure in their home from unreasonable search and seizure. Kicking in my door on the advice of a paid informant that is sure I have eight pounds of crystal meth is not "reasonable" IMO. The same search, done by knocking on the door and handing the home owner/renter a copy of the warrant, is much more reasonable to me and much less risky and probably even less expensive.

__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 06:35 PM   #90
Lifetime Supporting Member
FTF_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Vikingdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Santa Cruz Mountains,CA
Posts: 13,354
Liked 7663 Times on 4422 Posts
Likes Given: 9880

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
The guys who do the warrants pop the "other locations" either simultaneously or shortly afterwards. If criminals are "low level" then uniform patrol guys just swear out a warrant on them and wait until they see their car somewhere.

Here no knocks are an end result of hundreds sometimes thousands of hours of surveillance and undercover work, or the culmination of a sting. Are they used for narcotics? Sure. They are also the bread and butter for task forces and specialized divisions which target:
child predators
child pornographers
identity thieves
financial crimes
illegal guns (being sold to violent felons, here there are no raids for redneck joes homeade silencers. Not ever that I remember.)

No knocks are not always hard entry. And a lot of times they usually do knock. They just kick the door in if nobody answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
The financial crimes and child porn guys? Yeah you're talking about some paranoid dudes there! Anything these people are doing on a computer, the evidence can be trashed right away, and we'd never know. Or at least they can START trashing it at any rate. The time to completely wipe it varies depending on where the information is on their hard drive is.

Attachment 124199

Our guys found a computer kindof like this. Except everything was unplugged, and jacks for the wires were inside of the hole of the guitar.

When computer ops cloned the hard drive it had so many dead man triggers. The guy could have started a wipe with the touch of a button if it had been on and had they had to wait to go in.

Computer ops response? "Well, at least we didn't have to dig anything out of the attic insulation this time." The computer ops guy at our regional academy spent 3 hours showing us all the freaky ways those paranoid douchebags can destroy their evidence without us even knowing. And all the different objects they build computers into. It was pretty much anything that has a hole in the middle, or can be hollowed out to have a hole in the middle.

The financial crimes is people's entire lives these jerks have stolen.

And the child porn idiots..... Every kid they can identify is a kid we can remove from a horrible situation. And the computer gurus really do find kids from pictures sometimes. I could never work on a child predator or child porn task force. I'd knock on the door and when they opened it they would take a steel toe to the nuts. Say whatever you want, but at least I know what I cannot handle.
Well, as for myself I couldn't be a cop at all. Just the way I roll. That having been said, I wouldn't expect that a child molester would have the same level of weaponry as, say, a drug dealer. I could be wrong about that. So I am cool with no-knock dynamic entry warrants on all child molesters, and I would have no problem if the douchebag stopped a couple of rounds with his head in the process.


BUT THE COPS HAD DAMNED SURE BETTER HAVE THE RIGHT FRIGGING ADDRESS WHEN THEY GO IN!!!!!!!

Seriously. No excuses there. And if some cops get killed doing a wrong address, then that is their own mistake and the innocent person behind the wrong door should never be even charged with any crime whatsoever if their home was not the correct target. Period.
__________________

Shoot me an email at vikingdad995@gmail.com

Check out the Firearmstalk Podcasts with Vikingdad and DrFootball! https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/firearms-talk-podcast/id778007899

Quote:
"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
- Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography, page 446.
Vikingdad is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
SCENARIO: What legally happens when you defend yourself molonlabexx Legal and Activism 68 06-26-2013 12:44 PM
Defend your life... go to jail... 2manyhobbies Legal and Activism 0 02-19-2013 02:12 PM
How NOT To Defend Your Home! ninjatoth Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 13 07-30-2011 12:28 PM
Oath to Defend michigan0626 Politics, Religion and Controversy 8 05-16-2010 05:04 PM