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When is it NOT OK to use a firearm to defend yourself?


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Old 10-31-2013, 06:40 PM   #91
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...BUT THE COPS HAD DAMNED SURE BETTER HAVE THE RIGHT FRIGGING ADDRESS WHEN THEY GO IN!!!!!!!

Seriously. No excuses there. And if some cops get killed doing a wrong address, then that is their own mistake and the innocent person behind the wrong door should never be even charged with any crime whatsoever if their home was not the correct target. Period.
I agree with this part. If I get drunk and walk into your house in the middle of the night with a shotgun, I deserve to catch some buckshot, my bad.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:31 PM   #92
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I agree with this part. If I get drunk and walk into your house in the middle of the night with a shotgun, I deserve to catch some buckshot, my bad.
About a year ago my brother had a man just open his front door and walk right in, while my brother went to get his shotgun (which points out why i keep weapons handy around the house ) the man layed down on his couch, and was asleep by the time he got back. He poked him with the barrel of the shotgun a few times and tried to wake him up with no luck with no luck, just when he was about to call the police the man's wife came to the door. turned out to be his neighbor a few houses down who had cancer and just changed medication to sleep. Strong stuff and guy just walked out of his house right down the street... lol crazy.
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:51 PM   #93
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I will just have to agree to disagree; I don't think evidence preservation is justification for violation of the 4th amendment, not for drugs, not for frauds, not even for the child porn freaks. It is an affront to the fourth amendment that recognizes a citizen's right to be secure in their home from unreasonable search and seizure. Kicking in my door on the advice of a paid informant that is sure I have eight pounds of crystal meth is not "reasonable" IMO. The same search, done by knocking on the door and handing the home owner/renter a copy of the warrant, is much more reasonable to me and much less risky and probably even less expensive.
On reading this I have to agree. Reluctantly so (in regards to the child molesters), but I do agree.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:18 PM   #94
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Well I for one am happy that somewhere right now a detective is chatting with a pervert that will hopefully be kicked square in the ba hoHOs by a tac team in another couple of hours. Hopefully the no knock warrant doesn't include them knocking him upside the head.

Nobody here is kicking any doors over 8 lbs of meth behind nothing but word from a nickel and dime informant so rest easy.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:19 PM   #95
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WHAT IF???? The unanswerable question!
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:46 PM   #96
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Well I for one am happy that somewhere right now a detective is chatting with a pervert that will hopefully be kicked square in the ba hoHOs by a tac team in another couple of hours. Hopefully the no knock warrant doesn't include them knocking him upside the head.

Nobody here is kicking any doors over 8 lbs of meth behind nothing but word from a nickel and dime informant so rest easy.
All for the pervert bashing, AFTER conviction and AFTER a regular warrant service and search/seizure.

There have been some questionable cases in the past with the CI issue. The dead 93 year old grandma in Atlanta a few years ago comes immediately to mind. That got some resolution in court, as some of the officers involved got some time, IIRC. I don't think all the cases get that much press and well-deserved court attention. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:03 PM   #97
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All for the pervert bashing, AFTER conviction and AFTER a regular warrant service and search/seizure.

There have been some questionable cases in the past with the CI issue. The dead 93 year old grandma in Atlanta a few years ago comes immediately to mind. That got some resolution in court, as some of the officers involved got some time, IIRC. I don't think all the cases get that much press and well-deserved court attention. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting
Had it been an equally innocent younger black man I have no doubt that the dead man would have been posthumously "convicted" of the most heinous crimes. They simply could not fabricate enough falsified evidence to do the same with an elderly woman. Had it been a white woman the attempt to plant evidence may not have even been tried. Reading through this I would say that this is quite troubling, and ask if anything has changed in Atlanta since then?
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On February 7, 2007, it was announced that the Fulton County District Attorney's office, under district attorney Paul L. Howard, Jr., would seek felony murder and burglary indictments against the three officers involved.[23] The Rev. Markel Hutchins, acting as spokesman for Johnston's family, said her family members were "stunned and disappointed" by the announcement of the indictments because they believed it will disrupt a larger federal investigation of civil rights violations by the Atlanta Police Department

The federal probe into the police department revealed that Atlanta police routinely lied to obtain search warrants, including often falsifying affidavits.[24] The police sergeant in charge of the narcotics unit also pleaded guilty to charges surrounding the shooting, and another officer admitted to extortion.[3][6] Tesler's attorney, William McKenney, said that planting drugs and lying to obtain search warrants is routine in the police department
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:15 PM   #98
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VK, It is my understanding that there was a "house cleaning" of some parts of the department.
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:26 PM   #99
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I could never work on a child predator or child porn task force.
Nope, me neither. Maybe not dead, but a cast is pretty likely.

I still agree with those who point out that these unannounced midnight entries are too common and need to be severely curtailed. It's just the same in Canada. I posted a link to a guy up here who was acquitted on murder for shooting a cop on one of those deals. The same cops up here who would get all righteous about one of their members shooting a kid with a toy gun do a complete flip-flop when a cop gets shot by a civilian after busting into a bedroom in the middle of the night and shooting into the kids' bedroom with a gun that is not a toy gun. Makes my head hurt.
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:57 PM   #100
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Nope, me neither. Maybe not dead, but a cast is pretty likely.

I still agree with those who point out that these unannounced midnight entries are too common and need to be severely curtailed. It's just the same in Canada. I posted a link to a guy up here who was acquitted on murder for shooting a cop on one of those deals. The same cops up here who would get all righteous about one of their members shooting a kid with a toy gun do a complete flip-flop when a cop gets shot by a civilian after busting into a bedroom in the middle of the night and shooting into the kids' bedroom with a gun that is not a toy gun. Makes my head hurt.
Precisely the problem. Its a double-standard.
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