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Old 02-06-2013, 05:14 PM   #21
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10-13 inch penetration in gel from magsafe. I'm alternating. That was my thought when discussing it over with the mirror and sound like the best idea.

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Old 02-06-2013, 06:59 PM   #22
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I know any caliber can and will kill, because they have. This isn't about what I believe, its a mere matter of comparing two bullets in same caliber and trying to figure out which is the best for defense. I'm not saying they won't both do, but one can still be better suited for the job. If you'll notice I'm simply asking questions here Pat. You're reading into things here I do believe, and serving only to distract rather than help.
Ok, I tried to help. You don't like my advice, that's fine. I will leave you with a simple analogy. In my background in automotive performance, we have a simple saying. There is no replacement for displacement. And that means, you can add Turbo, Nitrous, Supercharger, a jet turbine if you are so inclined, on a car with a small engine, and it will never perform like something with more brawn. You are trying to achieve just that, and no matter how hard you try those rounds are simply not going to perform to the standards you want. You can shoehorn a giant motor in a small car, but what you end up with is an unreliable monster that will leave you on the side of the road waiting for triple A. The conversion to your question would be, you're going to end up with an unreliable handgun that fails at the worst possible time and the expense could be your life while waiting for "dial a prayer" to show up. I can't think of any better way to explain it. Good Luck in your endeavor.

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Old 02-06-2013, 07:08 PM   #23
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Ok, I tried to help. You don't like my advice, that's fine. I will leave you with a simple analogy. In my background in automotive performance, we have a simple saying. There is no replacement for displacement. And that means, you can add Turbo, Nitrous, Supercharger, a jet turbine if you are so inclined, on a car with a small engine, and it will never perform like something with more brawn. You are trying to achieve just that, and no matter how hard you try those rounds are simply not going to perform to the standards you want. You can shoehorn a giant motor in a small car, but what you end up with is an unreliable monster that will leave you on the side of the road waiting for triple A. The conversion to your question would be, you're going to end up with an unreliable handgun that fails at the worst possible time and the expense could be your life while waiting for "dial a prayer" to show up. I can't think of any better way to explain it. Good Luck in your endeavor.

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Sounds more like assumption than recommendation based on fact. But thanks, I guess. Lol

My car has a turbo, was born with it, has 226k on it still running like a champ with nothing more than regular maintenance. You're analogy doesn't equate to all situations. As long as a gun is rated for +p ammo (or turbo)...

I think you're trying to provide a response for an answer that was never given to a question that wax never asked.

But believe as you wish, I'm going to use fact based on performance.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:39 AM   #24
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Sounds more like assumption than recommendation based on fact. But thanks, I guess. Lol

My car has a turbo, was born with it, has 226k on it still running like a champ with nothing more than regular maintenance. You're analogy doesn't equate to all situations. As long as a gun is rated for +p ammo (or turbo)...

I think you're trying to provide a response for an answer that was never given to a question that wax never asked.

But believe as you wish, I'm going to use fact based on performance.
The question asked was, should I use the ammo designed for my gun or should I used a pumped up round from a different caliber. (debate it all you will, .22 and .25 are different calibers just like .22mag and .22lr, regardless of whether or not they "could" be used because someone made it work before)

The simple basis of the analogy was that you can never make a smaller engine perform at a higher rate by adding any number of accessories to it to increase efficiency or power. At the end of the day, the larger one simply has a higher potential given an even playing field. Yes, your unnamed car came with a Turbo. Does that mean that it can play on the same field as a factory stock 6.4 liter HEMI boasting 450HP? Probably not. Even if it could, if you decided to be on a level field you'd simply add such a device to the HEMI and you're smaller engine would yet again be at a disadvantage. Which one would last longer, your turbo or the big block? Are they equally cared for in terms of maintenance? Would the smaller entity last longer with equal care? Would the smaller entity run with the same efficiency over it's lifespan as the larger one without any forced induction? The bottom line is that when you add an outside force to make something perform to standards well beyond it's basic capacity, the likelihood of failure will rise drastically over the life of the device, be it a handgun or engine. Does that mean it will fail today? Tomorrow? Next month or year? No, it doesn't. But is the statistical likelihood higher for the device that is working beyond it's core standards for failure? Yes, it is. I make no assumptions. Mechanical devices are going to at some point in their lifespans, fail. This isn't a question of if, it is a question of when. It can happen the first time they are used, or it can happen 100 years in the future all based on a set of factors to which you have Zero control over. (unless you mined the metal, smelted it, quality checked it, forged it into whatever the device is, quality checked it again and then hand built and tested it......to which you still cannot account for minute things that can happen from simple temperature variations over a span of years) So what you want to do, is to use something that wasn't designed to be used in a smaller caliber with a higher powder charge in the hopes that you attain a performance increase that would lead to a bullet penetrating a person and causing a larger amount of damage to their body in an attempt to save your ass should you get into the situation where you should need to use such device, and then hope that your choice of higher charged lower caliber ammunition performs at the hypothetical mathematical rate you hope to secure via an online forum of "internet experts" that you don't know if they are a rocket scientist or a ditch digging monkey.

All of the info I gave you is based on information I have researched over my years of use, as well as my experience of trying to squeeze every last available ounce of power from the modern internal combustion engine using every possible method off forced induction and, nitrous oxide in the same way you wish to use a higher charged round. At the end of the day, it is known that: SAAMI, which is the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute, sets the working pressures of cartridges. +P generates chamber pressure above the maximum limits established by SAAMI. Modern handguns are said to be capable of such. But even with that, the amount of research done in using +P loads of a different caliber in a handgun designed for another caliber is nearly Zero. So, go ahead, do your thing, take the chance. I'm sorry I ever bothered trying to answer your question or educate you in the ways of mechanical motion and power generation.

GP
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:31 PM   #25
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No need to be sorry, I just don't agree with all the points for your argument. I find them logically unsound and unstable. I'm not going to get into it because it would simply be a waste of my time.

As I stated, I'm going to buy some and try some. If they cycle reliably that's the only thing I consider fact and I will use the left over for carry. I'll probably never need them but will feel much safer doing so. It's as simple as that.

I only believe and base my decisions on what I see and experience for myself, not hypothetical. I can and do, however, take all stats and opinions of others into consideration if they make sense to me.

Of course there's also the times where I simply need to find out for myself. Well see which one of these this time winds up being. ;D

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:01 PM   #26
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Just get a .380.

Ha ha ha. I ONLY say that because you said not to.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:19 PM   #27
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Just get a .380.

Ha ha ha. I ONLY say that because you said not to.
Lol ill give it ya, that was a good one!
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:24 PM   #28
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Please don't bother with the "get a 380" comments, that kind of input isn't helpful or worthwhile.

I have a 25 I use for backup/summer carry and I'm debating what ammo to load it with.

Remington FMJ: 50gr/760fps/64ftlb
MagSafe +P: 22gr/1750fps/150ftlb

Is the loss in bullet weight worth the added velocity and energy? Is it also worth using a hot loaf and putting extra wear on the parts of any gun, let alone such a small one out of production with parts only getting harder to find?

Right now I'm off the mind that it is totally worth it; that with such a staggering difference and increase it is well worth losing a bit of bullet weight for the added oomph.

What are your thoughts?

My mother-in-law has a .25 caliber. I got her a box of PMC Bronze.
Muzzle velocity: 750 fps.
Velocity at 50 yards: 695 fps.
Muzzle energy: 62 ft/lbs
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:34 AM   #29
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Go with the +p

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Old 02-14-2013, 03:38 AM   #30
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From my chronograph testing, using a Beretta 420 pistol, Mag-Tech ammo has the highest velocity I've tested. This is the 50 grain FMJ bullet load, giving the best penetration.

Mag Tech - 834 fps
Olin (Winchester) - 766 fps
Aguila - 758 fps

Those are the only three I've tested.

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