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Old 11-16-2013, 07:28 PM   #21
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Florida Statutes

782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

782.03 Excusable homicide.—Homicide is excusable when committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent, or by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or upon a sudden combat, without any dangerous weapon being used and not done in a cruel or unusual manner.

782.02 Justifiable use of deadly force.—The use of deadly force is justifiable when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person shall be.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:38 PM   #22
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I know this is a rhetorical question, but it's one I think about on a regular basis. I would do absolutely nothing, except pay attention to every detail I could remember and try to be a great witness. My ccw doesn't do anything but give the right to protect myself and my loved ones. If the guy has a knife, not pointed at me...I don't have a dog in that hunt.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:41 PM   #23
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I have a moral duty to prevent harm to my fellow man. I'll take my lumps if the authorities prosecute, but no way would I watch an innocent employee get injured in a robbery.
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by MisterMcCool
I have a moral duty to prevent harm to my fellow man. I'll take my lumps if the authorities prosecute, but no way would I watch an innocent employee get injured in a robbery.
Let's hope you don't shoot the wrong guy in the process. You have a moral duty when it comes to making a perfect decision when you decide to get involved. And you have to be a perfect shot in the situation as well. That's why LEOs train. How would you feel if you missed and hurt a friendly?

I took a CC class a while back and there was the example of a man who was pointing a gun at a woman sitting a car at close range. Someone got involved and shot the man, not fatally. Turns out the woman was stealing his car and he wanted to stop her. Food for thought
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:28 PM   #25
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The original scenario was proposed as an armed robber sticking up a coffee joint I was patronizing. There is no doubt in this example. I would not fire unless forced to. I am totally satisfied just running the guy off. I'm no cop. Detaining, arresting, investigating... that is their job. I just want everyone to survive. Even the gunman, but that is his decision.
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by chloeshooter View Post
Let's hope you don't shoot the wrong guy in the process. You have a moral duty when it comes to making a perfect decision when you decide to get involved. And you have to be a perfect shot in the situation as well. That's why LEOs train. How would you feel if you missed and hurt a friendly?

I took a CC class a while back and there was the example of a man who was pointing a gun at a woman sitting a car at close range. Someone got involved and shot the man, not fatally. Turns out the woman was stealing his car and he wanted to stop her. Food for thought
No offense to any LEO on the site. Most of them here are an exception to the rule. When it comes to shooting most LEO suck. Their training is far inferior to mine. In case of someone trying too stop an active shooter I would rather have a competitive shooter from the IDPA, USPSA or IPSC then just about any cop. The cop brings a badge. The competitive shooter actually brings some skill with them.
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:54 PM   #27
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No offense to any LEO on the site. Most of them here are an exception to the rule. When it comes to shooting most LEO suck. Their training is far inferior to mine. In case of someone trying too stop an active shooter I would rather have a competitive shooter from the IDPA, USPSA or IPSC then just about any cop. The cop brings a badge. The competitive shooter actually brings some skill with them.
I'm going to disagree with you on one part of your statement. I've highlighted it above. If you want to talk about the strictly mechanical part of it you may very well be right. The difference that makes me disagree is their training on the legalities of using deadly force. Shooting off the range is a lot more than hitting a metal plate. It's not enough to know how to shoot, you also have to know when to shoot, and when not to shoot.
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick1967
No offense to any LEO on the site. Most of them here are an exception to the rule. When it comes to shooting most LEO suck. Their training is far inferior to mine. In case of someone trying too stop an active shooter I would rather have a competitive shooter from the IDPA, USPSA or IPSC then just about any cop. The cop brings a badge. The competitive shooter actually brings some skill with them.
Your statement might be somewhat true but the bottom line is tons of people are good at punching paper. I'm not saying I have 100 percent confidence in all LEO but they typical handle high stress situations better because of experience. I can throw a football like a champ while playing catch in my yard. That doesn't mean I can out throw Peyton manning on the field when he has so many distractions and defenders. It is easy to Monday-morning quarterback when he(or LEOs) don't perform but the bottom line is until your in a high stress, high stakes situation you just don't know.

I'd say do what you think is morally right and let the chips fall where they may. I think it's good to think these situation through just so you have an idea of what or how to perform god forbid it happens. I've competed many times and won my fair share, but Paper punching is simple and controlled so keep in mind real life is not. Training in simulated stress is awesome but still isn't the same.

If this situation happens I hope someone is brave enough to act LEO or not
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Doc3402 View Post
I'm going to disagree with you on one part of your statement. I've highlighted it above. If you want to talk about the strictly mechanical part of it you may very well be right. The difference that makes me disagree is their training on the legalities of using deadly force. Shooting off the range is a lot more than hitting a metal plate. It's not enough to know how to shoot, you also have to know when to shoot, and when not to shoot.
Colorado law is very clear about when you can shoot in self defense or defense of another. I have taken two classes by two different groups. Both were very clear. Both were taught by attorneys. Cops have a lot of training that has nothing to do with whether or not they should stop someone from killing someone else.

Sometimes a robber leaves without hurting anyone. Other times they kill everyone in the store. If someone doesn't want to get shot while robbing a convenience store they should find one that is not in Colorado. While we have some goofy laws in Colorado...that isn't one of them.
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j4454
I'm not saying I have 100 percent confidence in all LEO but they typical handle high stress situations better because of experience.
Experience trumps training for sure.
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