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Old 06-21-2013, 08:28 AM   #51
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A homeless man was reliving himself on the side of my dumpster at my business, when I went out to empty the trash. I was not carrying a gun or any weapon. I confronted him, telling him he was trespassing and as posted, should leave the area.

This guy charges me, stopping feet from my face. I did not blink, waver, flinch, just starred at him, ready to protect myself if it came to that. Just before he turned and walked away, he told me he was going to kill me.

A gun in his face, would have done what? De escalate, or escalate?

If I had been wearing a gun at that time, I would not have pulled it. Even if it went to blows, I would not have used any piece or portion of that tool, as I feel as if it was not an emanate threat to my life. A drunk with a big mouth is a threat to my life? This guy running up to me in a threatening fashion was a threat to my life? I did not feel it was.

I was able to gauge this guy for a threat level long before I asked him to leave the property. For a split second, I questioned my own judgment, as it looked like I might take a fist or two, but everything worked out ok.

I did let the police know of his actions, without making a federal case out of it. Down and out guy, does not need a criminal record to further hold him below poverty.

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Old 06-21-2013, 08:55 AM   #52
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What firearm class did you take where the jist was to pull a gun and watch things de escalate?

I think that does often work out that way, when you are a sworn police officer, and trained to de escalate confrontations or possible confrontations with the pulling of a firearm, however, Joe sixpack, average good guy, with a CHP and a. 380 in his coat pocket is not trained, nor does he have the authority to detain or arrest.

I have a few NRA classes under my belt, and a few more good videos on the subject, and your rationale is foreign to me.
I'm not telling you what some class said. I'm telling you how it is. MOST self defense situations involving a gun, end when that gun is drawn. That's just how it is.

You seem to think that we are talking about pulling a gun before a situation has escalated. That's not what we are saying. You don't pull a gun until the situation is already escalated. If your life is in any danger, that is when you should pull the gun.

Detain and arrest? WTF does that have to do with anything? That's nowhere near the point. The point is you being able to walk away with your life. Arresting the BG is not my problem. I'll leave that to the police.

Your NRA classes and videos don't mean squat. I'm talking about how it is in the real world.
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:58 AM   #53
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Personally, I do not bring a knife to a fist fight, or a gun to a knife fight. Fifty years ago I would have. Today, the ACLU, and fifty other agencies are just waiting to pounce on a good guy with a gun.
That sounds like a damn fine way get yourself killed. Fighting fair is for the boxing ring. On the streets, you do what you have to do to survive.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:00 AM   #54
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A homeless man was reliving himself on the side of my dumpster at my business, when I went out to empty the trash. I was not carrying a gun or any weapon. I confronted him, telling him he was trespassing and as posted, should leave the area.

This guy charges me, stopping feet from my face. I did not blink, waver, flinch, just starred at him, ready to protect myself if it came to that. Just before he turned and walked away, he told me he was going to kill me.

A gun in his face, would have done what? De escalate, or escalate?

If I had been wearing a gun at that time, I would not have pulled it. Even if it went to blows, I would not have used any piece or portion of that tool, as I feel as if it was not an emanate threat to my life. A drunk with a big mouth is a threat to my life? This guy running up to me in a threatening fashion was a threat to my life? I did not feel it was.

I was able to gauge this guy for a threat level long before I asked him to leave the property. For a split second, I questioned my own judgment, as it looked like I might take a fist or two, but everything worked out ok.

I did let the police know of his actions, without making a federal case out of it. Down and out guy, does not need a criminal record to further hold him below poverty.
Absolutely!! I think your point is that every crises is not a life threatening crises!! Us gun owners tend to fantasies about the day we will be able to draw are guns and save the world!! The fact is most law abiding citizens that mind there own business and don't look for trouble will never run into a situation that justifies deadly force!! Like yourself, most situations that is stumbled upon can be handled long before a weapons is considered an option!! My guess is.. If you had a gun you would have drawn it!! Homeless guy would have walked away!! Police would have been called and you would of been in all kinds of legal hot water!! Unlike law enforcement, our general rights to use a gun or even draw a gun is "last resort" not "easiest" or "because I have it"!! Carrying a gun gives us no special rights, other than the fact we can carry!! But the laws remain the same, weather we carry or not!!
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:12 AM   #55
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I'm not telling you what some class said. I'm telling you how it is. MOST self defense situations involving a gun, end when that gun is drawn. That's just how it is.

You seem to think that we are talking about pulling a gun before a situation has escalated. That's not what we are saying. You don't pull a gun until the situation is already escalated. If your life is in any danger, that is when you should pull the gun.

Detain and arrest? WTF does that have to do with anything? That's nowhere near the point. The point is you being able to walk away with your life. Arresting the BG is not my problem. I'll leave that to the police.

Your NRA classes and videos don't mean squat. I'm talking about how it is in the real world.
Part of holding a concealed carry permit, and the rights and privileges that go along with it, and the second amendment, boils down to training, knowledge, skills, attitude.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:14 AM   #56
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Part of holding a concealed carry permit, and the rights and privileges that go along with it, and the second amendment, boils down to training, knowledge, skills, attitude.
And? I never said it didn't.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:16 AM   #57
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Absolutely!! I think your point is that every crises is not a life threatening crises!! Us gun owners tend to fantasies about the day we will be able to draw are guns and save the world!! The fact is most law abiding citizens that mind there own business and don't look for trouble will never run into a situation that justifies deadly force!! Like yourself, most situations that is stumbled upon can be handled long before a weapons is considered an option!! My guess is.. If you had a gun you would have drawn it!! Homeless guy would have walked away!! Police would have been called and you would of been in all kinds of legal hot water!! Unlike law enforcement, our general rights to use a gun or even draw a gun is "last resort" not "easiest" or "because I have it"!! Carrying a gun gives us no special rights, other than the fact we can carry!! But the laws remain the same, weather we carry or not!!
If I had been carrying, I would not have confronted this man. When I have a gun, I take every effort to stay away from confrontations. I never would have said boo to this guy, had I had a gun.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:21 AM   #58
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If I had been carrying, I would not have confronted this man. When I have a gun, I take every effort to stay away from confrontations. I never would have said boo to this guy, had I had a gun.
Nice!! Always best to avoid trouble
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:23 AM   #59
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That sounds like a damn fine way get yourself killed. Fighting fair is for the boxing ring. On the streets, you do what you have to do to survive.
We are a long way from Mad Max or the Book of Eli.

I rather think one can still walk in such a way, as to not tear the rice paper.

The street is not a video game. It is people, in my community. Sure there are bad people, but any killer needs someone to kill to be a killer. My actions do not feed.

A feather cannot guide itself in the wind, unless it is attached to a bird with an agenda.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:25 AM   #60
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We are a long way from Mad Max or the Book of Eli.

I rather think one can still walk in such a way, as to not tear the rice paper.

The street is not a video game. It is people, in my community. Sure there are bad people, but any killer needs someone to kill to be a killer. My actions do not feed.

A feather cannot guide itself in the wind, unless it is attached to a bird with an agenda.
So, if someone pulls a knife on you, and there is no way to safely get away, are you going to pull your knife or your gun?
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