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Old 06-20-2013, 01:58 PM   #31
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A reasonable ARTICULABLE fear of serious bodily injury or death to your self or another is the basic test for ALL self defense use of deadly force. This applies to the 'use' of a firearm even without the actual shooting. The mere presence of the weapon is all that is required to end most criminal attempts to victimize people.
If you read my earlier post you know time is of the essence when it comes to reporting this.

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Old 06-20-2013, 02:54 PM   #32
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Time for reconciliation, defusing, flight to evade confrontation, calling police for their interjection between me and my attacker has all ended once I draw my firearm.

It is prudent to inform an attacker at high voice levels, I have a gun, go away. Scream, shout, yell at the top of your voice, but using the gun as a brainishing tool is not in my training. I also do not train my students to fire warning shots off bedroom balconies, or to wound attackers in the leg, or shoot the bad guys gun out of their hand.

I teach do everything you can to make the situation ratchet down and not escalate. However, if you are forced to shoot someone, the action of pulling the firearm and shooting center mass is one action.

Pulling a gun and hesitating could very well mean having your gun taken away from you by an additional attacker you miss at first through tunnel vision, or concealment, or your hesitating may mean, the attacker pulls a gun and quickly shoots you, or stabs you.

An attacker can close the distance between you and him, at a rate of 21 feet in 1.5 seconds, or less.

For me, the commit to shoot happens while the firearm is holstered.

If I pull my gun on someone, and no shots are fired, I forgot to load the gun.

Carrying a loaded gun in public is a monumental responsibility, one that requires discipline, training, maturity, skills and attitude.

Last weekend as I was waiting in line to pump diesel fuel, a truck drives around me, and around the truck ahead of me, that was just finishing up to leave, cutting in line. His actions almost made it impossible for the finished vehicle to pull away from the pump.

Once I started fueling, I noticed the jerk that cut in line, was wearing a shirt picturing a gun and the words, bang you are dead. As a gun carrying CHP person, I did not give the jerk eye contact, acknowledge his presence, or tell him he was a jerk for cutting into line.

Defuse any conflict way before it starts, always.

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Old 06-20-2013, 05:57 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR10 View Post
Time for reconciliation, defusing, flight to evade confrontation, calling police for their interjection between me and my attacker has all ended once I draw my firearm.

It is prudent to inform an attacker at high voice levels, I have a gun, go away. Scream, shout, yell at the top of your voice, but using the gun as a brainishing tool is not in my training. I also do not train my students to fire warning shots off bedroom balconies, or to wound attackers in the leg, or shoot the bad guys gun out of their hand.

I teach do everything you can to make the situation ratchet down and not escalate. However, if you are forced to shoot someone, the action of pulling the firearm and shooting center mass is one action.

Pulling a gun and hesitating could very well mean having your gun taken away from you by an additional attacker you miss at first through tunnel vision, or concealment, or your hesitating may mean, the attacker pulls a gun and quickly shoots you, or stabs you.

An attacker can close the distance between you and him, at a rate of 21 feet in 1.5 seconds, or less.

For me, the commit to shoot happens while the firearm is holstered.

If I pull my gun on someone, and no shots are fired, I forgot to load the gun.

Carrying a loaded gun in public is a monumental responsibility, one that requires discipline, training, maturity, skills and attitude.

Last weekend as I was waiting in line to pump diesel fuel, a truck drives around me, and around the truck ahead of me, that was just finishing up to leave, cutting in line. His actions almost made it impossible for the finished vehicle to pull away from the pump.

Once I started fueling, I noticed the jerk that cut in line, was wearing a shirt picturing a gun and the words, bang you are dead. As a gun carrying CHP person, I did not give the jerk eye contact, acknowledge his presence, or tell him he was a jerk for cutting into line.

Defuse any conflict way before it starts, always.
Yes sir best way to de-escalate is not let it escalate in the first place.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:17 PM   #34
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in milwaukee about 4 blocks from a police station a woman walking to work was being beaten to death on the sidewalk early in the wee hours of the morning. an ex-marine stopped drew his sidearm pointed it at the goblin ordered him to stop killing the woman. he also called the police on his cell phone. it took the police 10 minutes to get there or thereabouts... link to the story: http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/marine-veteran-stops-beating-holds-man-at-gunpoint-qs95000-197766101.html

the police arrested the goblin. no one died.

so should he have just shot the guy or talked to him playnice like and negotiated a violent situation into one where the goblin closed the distance to him and attacked?? or pulled his weapon and held the goblin at bay until police arrived as he did??

i would postulate that if he had of tried to "talk it out" there would have been two dead bodies on the ground instead of two live people going home and a bad guy going to prison.

talking things out and going the other way is fine when your talking about a situation where some one is calling your momma names and crap like that. but goblins dont "talk things out". they dont play nice or play by nice fictions of a polite society. if things are bad enough to draw, you draw, once the gun comes out then i will feel better about having a dialogue once i am sure i have force to back it up.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:44 PM   #35
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There are no two situations which are just alike, thus my adamant teaching to stay away from absolutes when dealing with critical incidents involving the human animal!!!
Do whatever you MUST do, just be RIGHT when you do!!!

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Old 06-20-2013, 08:31 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau
There are no two situations which are just alike, thus my adamant teaching to stay away from absolutes when dealing with critical incidents involving the human animal!!!
Do whatever you MUST do, just be RIGHT when you do!!!
Absolutely!! Trust your God giving instincts and that will carry you through more times than not!!
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:34 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
There are no two situations which are just alike, thus my adamant teaching to stay away from absolutes when dealing with critical incidents involving the human animal!!!
Do whatever you MUST do, just be RIGHT when you do!!!
this.

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Old 06-21-2013, 02:05 AM   #38
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Local forum, attorney was asked by the now felon in jail to tell his "story". Guy pulled his gun on what was "probably" a valid SD moment, but things fell apart with all the things he did wrong after that. He did not call the police, the other guy did. When the police showed up at his house later on, he was armed, and now intoxicated. He came home and had several adult beverages to calm down. Never called the police, never called an attorney, and now is sitting in jail.

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Old 06-21-2013, 02:22 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partdeux
Local forum, attorney was asked by the now felon in jail to tell his "story". Guy pulled his gun on what was "probably" a valid SD moment, but things fell apart with all the things he did wrong after that. He did not call the police, the other guy did. When the police showed up at his house later on, he was armed, and now intoxicated. He came home and had several adult beverages to calm down. Never called the police, never called an attorney, and now is sitting in jail.
Excellent points!! It's more about doing the right thing during a crises!! The follow up is almost equally important!!
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:42 AM   #40
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If you pull your gun and the confrontation ends, very very very very likely, your brainishing a gun was not needed to thwart the impending action you were so afraid of.
What? That couldn't be farther from the truth. MOST self defense situations end exactly like that. A person who is in some kind of situation where they fear their life is in danger pulls a gun, and the bad guy either complies with their commands, or runs. That happens all the time.

Muggers, home intruders, rapists, ect. It doesn't matter. They're all looking for an easy score, and they don't want to end up dead. If someone pulls a gun on them, they are most likely going to stop what ever they were doing, and run.
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