True story - Page 3
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection > True story

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2013, 01:16 AM   #21
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Tackleberry1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 5,925
Liked 4715 Times on 2281 Posts
Likes Given: 1440

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by txpossum View Post
Yup, it had an exposed hammer, and that was part of the problem. As stated, this was not his usual carry gun; but he got in a hurry and just picked up the snubbie, threw it in his inside vest pocket, and went. He has holsters for it, and for his other guns (he has one custom made shoulder holster for a Ruger .45LC single action, with an additional small holster on the shoulder strap for a American Derringer in .45/.410 that I drool over, but that's another story).
Please double check with him and see if he can remember the hammer hanging up... or if if was his closed fist "inside a pocket" that prevented a smooth draw.

Years ago I watched a documentary on an African tribe that had a neat trick for getting monkeys to lead them to water.

They would identify monkeys watching them in an area with large termite mounds. Holes in the mounds were large enough for a "open" monkey hand to slip inside, but too small for the primate to pull it's hand out with a clenched fist. The tribesmen would sneak up to the termite mound "knowing the curious monkeys were watching", pull some pebbles from a pocket, act as though they were "precious" then deposits them in the termite hole all while looking around fertively as though they did not want anyone to see their hiding place.

As soon as the tribesman walked away, several monkeys would make a bee line for the mound, one would reach into the hole, "just as the human noticed and came running back waving a stick", the primate would panick, unwilling or unable to "let go" of the unknown treasure within the hole, it would hop around uselessly with it's fist stuck fast.

The tribesman would then loop a collar around it's neck, feed it some natural salt, then follow his leashed pet to the nearest water source.

Pretty smart trick but the memory of that paniked monkey unable to free it's hand because it could not, or would not, release the pebbles has always stuck in my mind as a good way to loose a 1 armed fight with the strong hand stuck in a pocket, death grip on an EDC pistol, as one is getting knifed, shot, or beaten to death.

Are we smarter than monkeys? Yes... Do we also loose fine motor skill and do really dumb things under stress? ABSOLUTELY.

Something to think about.

Tack
__________________

Last edited by Tackleberry1; 04-29-2013 at 01:19 AM.
Tackleberry1 is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 02:58 AM   #22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,454
Liked 1116 Times on 583 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

I must admit that last winter (not the one just passed; the one a year ago) I got into a similar bad habit -- I carried my weapon in the inside pocket of my Carhart jacket. It was convenient -- I could just leave it in there day after day -- but it would have probably taken me 10 minutes to get it free.

__________________
txpossum is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 03:38 AM   #23
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Tackleberry1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 5,925
Liked 4715 Times on 2281 Posts
Likes Given: 1440

Default

Capitalism is great at inventing solutions to problems that do not exist... and equally good at creating a market for "safety products" that actually make us less safe.

Personally, I feel the entire "pocket gun" industry and it's accessories fall into this paradigm.

If 17 years of EDC and more fist fights than I care to remember have taught me anything, it's that the presence of adrenaline and violence will allways combine to make the best prepared people look like bumbling rookies...

...and no fancy "flypaper" holster or "hammer less" hangun is going to change the odds when panic prevents your strong hand and EDC from participating in the fight because, yank as you might, the death grip you've got on the only tool capable of saving you makes your fist too damn BIG to pull clear.

Tonight... I'd like all my friends here, to go dawn your "pocket gun"'in the same garment you typically carry it in, "UNLOADED OF COURSE"...

...now, grab that weapon and "try" to draw it within your solidly clenched fist.

How well did that work?

Tack

__________________

Last edited by Tackleberry1; 04-29-2013 at 03:40 AM.
Tackleberry1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 04:45 AM   #24
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BeyondTheBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,604
Liked 285 Times on 247 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
Capitalism is great at inventing solutions to problems that do not exist... and equally good at creating a market for "safety products" that actually make us less safe.

Personally, I feel the entire "pocket gun" industry and it's accessories fall into this paradigm.

If 17 years of EDC and more fist fights than I care to remember have taught me anything, it's that the presence of adrenaline and violence will allways combine to make the best prepared people look like bumbling rookies...

...and no fancy "flypaper" holster or "hammer less" hangun is going to change the odds when panic prevents your strong hand and EDC from participating in the fight because, yank as you might, the death grip you've got on the only tool capable of saving you makes your fist too damn BIG to pull clear.

Tonight... I'd like all my friends here, to go dawn your "pocket gun"'in the same garment you typically carry it in, "UNLOADED OF COURSE"...

...now, grab that weapon and "try" to draw it within your solidly clenched fist.

How well did that work?

Tack
Nice concept Tak, now apply that to those who won't carry anywhere else...

Would you advise those to stop carrying and rely on luck?

Just saying, I cannot carry anywhere other than pocket because it's such an extreme discomfort to do so. You may not understand that due to your situation, but you aren't me and that's all that matters or means anything. Not opinion, nor the norm.

While I agree with you in theory, the fact is the same concept applies to carry in any and every position and place. The larger and baggier the shirt the more there is to hang up on with IWB or OWB.

A Life or death situation creates the same issues with drawing no matter the place drawn from. Some may have advantages for you that they don't for others. There's WAYYYYYY too many factors to consider that simply cannot be.

You're inclined to draw from the hip and you practice this and are prepared for this. Good for you. I don't believe in practice for a reason, you've outlined a great case for my belief, but I also believe one size (figuratively) does not fit all.

Okay, I'm really drunk, and I may have totally read way more into what you said than what wad intended, but right now I don't think I did and I'm so letting this ride, so stuff it! Lol

Ps, I may love you tak! Just saying, when I drink I love everyone... Take that for what you will. Lol
__________________
BeyondTheBox is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 05:03 AM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Tackleberry1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 5,925
Liked 4715 Times on 2281 Posts
Likes Given: 1440

Default

BTB

It's not my intent to beat up anyones carry decisions. I have always had this
Concern and authored several posts about the wisdom of "noisy crickets".

This is the first time I've full explained my reasons for not trusting the pocket carry method for two reasons...

1 We have many members whom I respect that pocket carry and....

2 I do consider all of you friends

Because of that, I want all of you to consider the realities of addrenelin and train for it as best you can.

I spent several years competing in monthly NRA Action Pistol competitions which is why I favor the strong side IWB. Short of an actual fight, these "from the holster" timed engagements are the "next best" option for training.

I'd strongly suggest all EDC folks practice this. If you can't compete, get an egg timer and some buddies together. Making it competitive will help replicate the stress and highlight any problem points with your draw.

Tack

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondTheBox View Post
Nice concept Tak, now apply that to those who won't carry anywhere else...

Would you advise those to stop carrying and rely on luck?

Just saying, I cannot carry anywhere other than pocket because it's such an extreme discomfort to do so. You may not understand that due to your situation, but you aren't me and that's all that matters or means anything. Not opinion, nor the norm.

While I agree with you in theory, the fact is the same concept applies to carry in any and every position and place. The larger and baggier the shirt the more there is to hang up on with IWB or OWB.

A Life or death situation creates the same issues with drawing no matter the place drawn from. Some may have advantages for you that they don't for others. There's WAYYYYYY too many factors to consider that simply cannot be.

You're inclined to draw from the hip and you practice this and are prepared for this. Good for you. I don't believe in practice for a reason, you've outlined a great case for my belief, but I also believe one size (figuratively) does not fit all.

Okay, I'm really drunk, and I may have totally read way more into what you said than what wad intended, but right now I don't think I did and I'm so letting this ride, so stuff it! Lol

Ps, I may love you tak! Just saying, when I drink I love everyone... Take that for what you will. Lol
__________________
Tackleberry1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 05:04 AM   #26
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Pasco Cty.FL
Posts: 6,512
Liked 2448 Times on 1394 Posts
Likes Given: 1911

Default

IIRC, John Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, and Machine Gun Kelly

all pocket carried their handguns, without many issues.

IMHO, regardless of where or how you carry, you

need to be alert to your surroundings, and draw

early, when possible.

__________________
therewolf is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 05:23 AM   #27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BeyondTheBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,604
Liked 285 Times on 247 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
BTB

It's not my intent to beat up anyones carry decisions. I have always had this
Concern and authored several posts about the wisdom of "noisy crickets".

This is the first time I've full explained my reasons for not trusting the pocket carry method for two reasons...

1 We have many members whom I respect that pocket carry and....

2 I do consider all of you friends

Because of that, I want all of you to consider the realities of addrenelin and train for it as best you can.

I spent several years competing in monthly NRA Action Pistol competitions which is why I favor the strong side IWB. Short of an actual fight, these "from the holster" timed engagements are the "next best" option for training.

I'd strongly suggest all EDC folks practice this. If you can't compete, get an egg timer and some buddies together. Making it competitive will help replicate the stress and highlight any problem points with your draw.

Tack
Yup, love you!

As I've learned to include in pretty much every post or reply I make... "to each their own". We all make our decisions and lie in the beds we make.

I have a box full of holsters for every form of what is or are considered standard places of carry.

Not a one of them were even close to acceptable for me. Broken skin with bleeding, friction burns, chapping and chaffing... I did full sweat shields, the super tuck with complete hammer guard...

I quite literally cannot simply grow accustomed to any IWB holster and OWB stands in compete opposition to CC as far as I'm concerned.

But to blame ones style choice or recommend a change would be ludicrous to me. That shouldn't at all be necessary and, with pocket carry option, guess what, it isn't.

I cannot and will not disagree with your reasoning and/or experiences, but nothing in life is cookie cutter fit Tak.

I may find myself one day wishing I had my gun more easily accessible, but the same could be said for you or anyone else. In the end it comes down to luck of the draw no matter how prepared we might be, chance is always the house and the house always wins!

But what do I know, I'm just a moron worth a gun. ; P
__________________
BeyondTheBox is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 02:40 PM   #28
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
danolator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 630
Liked 64 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Love this thread. Who puts their hand in their pocket, forms a fist around the handle of their gun, and then tries to draw?

Then there's my favorite, the monkey story. Reminds me if that old joke, how do you catch a polar bear?

You cut a hole in the ice, line peas around the edges of the hole. When the bear comes to take a pea, you kick him in the ice- hole.

__________________
Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. My rod is a GLOCK and it comforts me
danolator is offline  
orangello Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 04:03 PM   #29
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Tackleberry1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 5,925
Liked 4715 Times on 2281 Posts
Likes Given: 1440

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
IIRC, John Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, and Machine Gun Kelly

all pocket carried their handguns, without many issues.

IMHO, regardless of where or how you carry, you

need to be alert to your surroundings, and draw

early, when possible.
Dillinger, Floyd, and Kelly were all hardened criminals who picked there targets and thus "choose" the time of engagement.

The 1 time Dillenger was surprised by Federal Agents... he went for his pocketed gun... and died. Just Saying.

Tack
__________________
Tackleberry1 is offline  
towboater Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 04:12 PM   #30
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Tackleberry1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 5,925
Liked 4715 Times on 2281 Posts
Likes Given: 1440

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by danolator View Post
Love this thread. Who puts their hand in their pocket, forms a fist around the handle of their gun, and then tries to draw?

Then there's my favorite, the monkey story. Reminds me if that old joke, how do you catch a polar bear?

You cut a hole in the ice, line peas around the edges of the hole. When the bear comes to take a pea, you kick him in the ice- hole.
Who does this? The person in fear of death because a goblin or goblins are closing on you with clear intent, possibly already shooting.

All I'm saying is train to be "excellent" because when the chips are down, you'll be lucky to achieve a "mediocre" level of performance.

I knew this warning would draw fire due to the large number of folks who have invested in this form of carry. Insulting you guys is not my intent. I just want you all to think about the added difficulty involved when fine motor skill gives way to adrenaline and fear.

We'd all like to think that if needed, we could perform like William Money in the final shooting sceene of "Unforgiven"...

... and perhaps given the right equipment some could. Personally, I'll err on the side of caution and stay away from pocket carry.

Just my .02 Cents guys.

Tack
__________________

Last edited by Tackleberry1; 04-29-2013 at 04:15 PM.
Tackleberry1 is offline  
towboater Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
So True. Gator45 The Club House 6 03-01-2012 01:47 AM
True story, had to share bigbad-ratman The Club House 4 10-08-2010 02:17 AM
I wonder if this is true danf_fl Politics, Religion and Controversy 20 09-23-2010 10:37 AM
Anyone know if this is true? mroutlaw_ Politics, Religion and Controversy 9 04-23-2009 03:25 AM