Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection > Think About This

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2013, 10:15 PM   #21
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
John_Deer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,826
Liked 1489 Times on 1007 Posts
Likes Given: 515

Default

Even a 44 mag doesn't doesn't create enough hydrostatic shock to knock a man off his feet. People shot by pistols that pass away usually die from loss of blood, of course there are exceptions. Hydrostatic shock is the realm of centerfire rifles. A 30/06 round has over three times the energy of a 44 mag fired from any pistol. Most people shot by any pistol survive. People shot by a long gun are not so lucky. There was a video created by an ER doctor going around the internet that debunked most of the myths about small caliber handguns and handguns in general.

We all have seen a western were someone shoots a lock open with a pistol. Mythbusters debunked that myth. No pistol that the mythbusters tried was able to bust a lock open. Every long gun they tried other than a 22 LR was able to bust a lock open.

__________________

Nothing in the affairs of men is worthy of great anxiety - Plato

John_Deer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:04 PM   #22
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Axxe55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Deep East Texas Pineywoods!
Posts: 28,210
Liked 20922 Times on 11885 Posts
Likes Given: 52462

Default

IMO the 44 Magnum produces a lot of power in a compact package. personally i am a big fan of the 44 Magnum and have been for many years. i have been using the Hornady XTP bullets in 180 and 200 grs. with very good results. now how much hydrostatic power or what ever it has, i have no idea of. but it will tear through 8" pine stumps and leave huge holes in them. i seriously doubt any human would be much tougher that a pine stump! i do suspect they will bleed out in big hurry though!

__________________
Coming from the Village of the Damned.
To the victor, go the spoils of war.
Axxe55 is offline  
wizard63 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:27 PM   #23
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
FernandoTheCommando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 681
Liked 376 Times on 213 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
Even a 44 mag doesn't doesn't create enough hydrostatic shock to knock a man off his feet. People shot by pistols that pass away usually die from loss of blood, of course there are exceptions. Hydrostatic shock is the realm of centerfire rifles. A 30/06 round has over three times the energy of a 44 mag fired from any pistol. Most people shot by any pistol survive. People shot by a long gun are not so lucky. There was a video created by an ER doctor going around the internet that debunked most of the myths about small caliber handguns and handguns in general.

We all have seen a western were someone shoots a lock open with a pistol. Mythbusters debunked that myth. No pistol that the mythbusters tried was able to bust a lock open. Every long gun they tried other than a 22 LR was able to bust a lock open.
I'll politely disagree with the hydrostatic shock from a .44 magnum comment. I believe at self defense distances, a magnum is fully capable of causing hydrostatic shock. There isn't a gun short of a Barret .50 that will knock a man down by sheer force. Also, I thought myth busters proved only a .308 and up was capable of busting a master lock open. Either way, apples and oranges. Guess there needs to be more studies done so we can all just agree on something haha.
__________________
FernandoTheCommando is offline  
Axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:43 PM   #24
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
clr8ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Central NH
Posts: 3,120
Liked 913 Times on 604 Posts
Likes Given: 568

Default

Quote:
I don't believe that to be true at all with small calibre bullets. The whole "bouncing around tearing up organs" just doesn't jive with me. The fbi switched to a larger calibre because they needed stopping power. Sure, a .22 has killed many people, but if you do the research, they were hit in the head, spine, lungs, or heart. I would NEVER trust a .22 or .25 auto to penetrate heavy clothing a still reach vital organs. Bleeding out can kill you, but it's the hydrostatic shock from a well placed hollow point that really gets an attacker to rethink their decision to continue fighting. Numerous studies have indicated that anything less than .380 is a toss up when it comes to stopping a threat cold. Now, I don't claim to be an expert or anything, I'm just going on what I've read (which is a lot). Obviously carrying any gun is better than not carrying a gun. But, I just don't believe that a .22 is bouncing around inside the body after traveling through clothing, muscle, and possibly bone. That small of a round just doesn't have the energy behind it. Again, this is all my opinion and everyone knows opinions are like a** holes. Everyone has one and they all stink.
I think he said "low survivability rate" not, "1-shot stop"
__________________
clr8ter is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 12:28 AM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
SSGN_Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,222
Liked 2076 Times on 1223 Posts
Likes Given: 445

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FernandoTheCommando View Post
Quick info that's why. I'm not going to type out an entire paragraph from a book lol. You asked for a definition of hydrostatic shock and there it is. If I reeealllyyy must quote a book then you'll have to apologize to my fingers as I'm typing on a phone. I'm not trying to argue, just trying to educate. I'm here to make friends and share info with everyone so we can provide the less educated with solid facts. I've gained some great knowledge from people here and I enjoy sharing what I've learned.
Well if you were already on Wiki you might want to scroll down and check the energy figures you put out there on the 10mm round. Nowhere near 10,000 ft/lbs. more like an average around 750 ft/lbs. even the .30-06 only generates around 3000-3300 Ft/lbs at the muzzle.

The truck is partly getting the energy to transfer, but also in what that energy does in the body. Also, where is the energy is doing its damage. Major blood loss must be achieved, or major nerve centers must be hit to incapacitate a living target quickly, animal or human, hunting or combat. Placing the projectile where it can do the most efficient transfer of energy to the cardiovascular system, or central nervous system will be a bigger factor than the actual caliber used.

.30-06 rifles killed many deer and enemies if the nation. Sometimes instantly, sometimes slowly, sometimes they weren't lethal. And it packs close to 5 times the energy if the 10mm pistol round.
Primitive, stone tipped arrows dropped game animals, and also wounded many, some fatally, some not.
Handguns suck if you want a guaranteed quick end to an attack.
__________________
SSGN_Doc is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 12:47 PM   #26
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
FernandoTheCommando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 681
Liked 376 Times on 213 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSGN_Doc View Post

Well if you were already on Wiki you might want to scroll down and check the energy figures you put out there on the 10mm round. Nowhere near 10,000 ft/lbs. more like an average around 750 ft/lbs. even the .30-06 only generates around 3000-3300 Ft/lbs at the muzzle.

The truck is partly getting the energy to transfer, but also in what that energy does in the body. Also, where is the energy is doing its damage. Major blood loss must be achieved, or major nerve centers must be hit to incapacitate a living target quickly, animal or human, hunting or combat. Placing the projectile where it can do the most efficient transfer of energy to the cardiovascular system, or central nervous system will be a bigger factor than the actual caliber used.

.30-06 rifles killed many deer and enemies if the nation. Sometimes instantly, sometimes slowly, sometimes they weren't lethal. And it packs close to 5 times the energy if the 10mm pistol round.
Primitive, stone tipped arrows dropped game animals, and also wounded many, some fatally, some not.
Handguns suck if you want a guaranteed quick end to an attack.
What I meant about the 10mm was that it's 1300fps+ and 800 ft lbs leaving the muzzle which equals around 10,000ft lbs of pressure at that tiny little chunk of lead and copper right where it hits your chest (depending on the load).
__________________
FernandoTheCommando is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:08 PM   #27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Alwayscarrying's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Barboursville,West Virginia
Posts: 101
Liked 17 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Fernando, may I ask what math you are using to come to the conclusion that the 10mm hits with 10,000ft-lbs?

__________________
Alwayscarrying is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:17 PM   #28
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
FernandoTheCommando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 681
Liked 376 Times on 213 Posts

Default

1400fps x roughly 800ft lbs of muzzle energy equals around 10,000ft lbs at the point of impact depending on the size and weight of the projectile? Why is it so hard for so many people to understand that?

__________________
FernandoTheCommando is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:22 PM   #29
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
FernandoTheCommando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 681
Liked 376 Times on 213 Posts

Default

Do I really need to break down the mathematical formula bit by bit. The projectile traveling at "x" fps, leaving the gun with "x" ft lbs, weighing "x" amount, will impact at the target in that tiny little 1/2 poi with around 10,000 ft lbs of energy.

__________________
FernandoTheCommando is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:23 PM   #30
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
FernandoTheCommando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 681
Liked 376 Times on 213 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FernandoTheCommando View Post
1400fps x roughly 800ft lbs of muzzle energy equals around 10,000ft lbs at the point of impact depending on the size and weight of the projectile? Why is it so hard for so many people to understand that?
That's actually a little over 10,000 ft lbs but I just estimated it. Closer to 11,000. I keep repeatedly getting called out on that number but it's not that hard to understand. If you could fire a tubular projectile out of a cannon at 1000 ft lbs of muzzle energy, and that tubular projectile had a smaller solid tube on the front, that smaller point is going to impact with thousands more ft lbs at the poi than what the muzzle energy was leaving the cannon. I dunno if I'm explaining it well enough since I'm not a math teacher. The energy transfer at that tiny poi is many many times higher than the ft lbs of muzzle energy it had leaving the barrel of the gun. So, I'm talking about ft lbs of energy transfer at the poi. Not ft lbs of muzzle energy. Get it now?
__________________

Last edited by FernandoTheCommando; 10-26-2013 at 04:36 PM.
FernandoTheCommando is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes