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Old 11-21-2013, 12:31 AM   #21
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But I'm willing to bet the .410 SD rounds would embarrass almost any single round handgun load in a ballistic gelatin test.
That may depend on what criteria you want to use. FBI penetration standards perhaps?



Some .410 handgun data. Looks like reliable penetration to the FBI 12-18" is not super common.

http://www.410handguns.com/410_gel_results.html

9MM data. Most rounds end up in the 12-18" range.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/9x19mm%20Luger/9x19mm%20Luger%20Summary%20Table.pdf
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:30 AM   #22
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That may depend on what criteria you want to use. FBI penetration standards perhaps?



Some .410 handgun data. Looks like reliable penetration to the FBI 12-18" is not super common.

http://www.410handguns.com/410_gel_results.html

9MM data. Most rounds end up in the 12-18" range.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/9x19mm%20Luger/9x19mm%20Luger%20Summary%20Table.pdf
Certainly wasn't talking about penetration alone. I would much rather the stopping power of 3 copper plates at 7.5" plus 12 BB's at 4.5" than a single 9mm bullet at 10".
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:23 AM   #23
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Certainly wasn't talking about penetration alone. I would much rather the stopping power of 3 copper plates at 7.5" plus 12 BB's at 4.5" than a single 9mm bullet at 10".
And that's where we will probably differ on what criteria are important. A projectile has to be able to reliably get deep enough to hit major organs and blood vessels to get an attacker to stop. All handguns suck at this. Lightweight ballistically inefficient rounds don't get the required penetration. Light, round balls are worst. Lightweight pucks aren't much better. Delivering a payloads energy shallow will make an ugly wound, but may not get deep enough to end a fight. It may get there. It may get there sometimes and not others. I prefer predictability of performance, and where the round is most likely to go.

I do like a shotgun or a rifle for actual best possibility of stopping a fight, but those are different animals all together when you add an extra foot and a half to a barrel, and increase the shot size and payload, or have a rifle bullet at rifle velocities. In shotguns I choose 12 ga. #4, #1, or 00 buckshot preferred. In rifles, most actual rifle rounds will do, .233, 7.62x39, .30-30, .30-06, .308, etc. all put most any handgun round to shame.

Not trying to start an argument over the Judge being capable of stopping an attack, just stating that like all handguns it is a compromise just like the rest. It has some versatility, and yes they are making rounds now that may increase its effectiveness, but is still far from having any great advantage as a handgun, over anything that already exists.

I've shot a few Taurus Judges. I don't shoot them well in rapid fire like I do a Glock, Sig, or 1911. If I can get three 9mm or .45 rounds deep into a target I'll feel better than I would getting two shots out if a Judge that may get one or two projectiles deep enough to hit deep arteries, or blood filled organs to get someone to rapidly bleed out. I want to be able to hit their spine from the front. I want a round to be able to get through arm bones and still bury itself deep in the chest. I want enough stretch cavity deep in the torso to rip the aorta or vena cava without having to physically contact it. A .410 round out of a 2-3" barrel won't do that with any regularity.
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:19 PM   #24
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The PDX1 SD rounds were created with the same theory of why people would rather use a 12 gauge SG vs a 20 gauge. More is better. Multiple projectiles from a .410 PDX1 round that go through both sides of a steel drum will be more effective than most single projectile rounds for SD. And again, if deep penetration is the concern (heavy winter clothing, etc) the judge fires the 45 Colt round that does the job better than most.

The Judge is popular due to the rounds it shoots, not because it's a Taurus. If Glock or Sig made a gun that did the same, they'd be put on pedestals........I have no biased whatsoever for Taurus, and the Judge is the only one I've owned. But it's a well made revolver that shoots nasty rounds. Not a lot that can go wrong there......As for pumpkins vs humans, I agree. But I'm willing to bet the .410 SD rounds would embarrass almost any single round handgun load in a ballistic gelatin test.
Gonna have to agree with that last statement.. the test(s) i ran and the reaction of the water filled bucket i shot at 30 yards (lifted 5 feet and split apart) will validate that claim..
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:01 PM   #25
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Just a link that you guys might like. Not totally scientific, but this guy's web site has a lot of good info on lots of guns and makes for a good bit of informative and entertaining time on the computer for gun enthusiasts.

This link is on some tests he did with the Judge and his interpretation of his observations and data. The rest of his site is pretty good though and worthy of a visit from time to time.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm

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Old 11-21-2013, 05:49 PM   #26
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Just a link that you guys might like. Not totally scientific, but this guy's web site has a lot of good info on lots of guns and makes for a good bit of informative and entertaining time on the computer for gun enthusiasts.

This link is on some tests he did with the Judge and his interpretation of his observations and data. The rest of his site is pretty good though and worthy of a visit from time to time.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm
Interesting read. I wish he had tested the 45LC in the water jugs while he was at it. Thanks for the link.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:53 PM   #27
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Sorry. We didn't have any volunteers to use as a target so the pumpkins got the job

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Old 11-21-2013, 06:25 PM   #28
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Interesting read. I wish he had tested the 45LC in the water jugs while he was at it. Thanks for the link.
If you click on the "Original Chapters" tab he has an earlier test of the Judge that included a test of Winchester Silvertip .45 Colt round.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:06 PM   #29
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Take the time to watch these.





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Old 11-21-2013, 10:12 PM   #30
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Another good read. The most interesting part to me was near the end of part 2 where they compare the judge to the xds shot shells. I think this guy got it right. The advances in ammunition have made the judge a very viable weapon for different applications.
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