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-   -   Small caliber CCW (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/small-caliber-ccw-39780/)

IDVague 03-14-2011 05:49 AM

Small caliber CCW
 
In this discussion, small caliber means anything from .380 and smaller. I have read several discussions with statements about small calibers like "with heavy clothing a BG might not feel it" or "it will only piss off a BG on drugs". I'd like to hear from two groups in this thread.

(1) People who have SHOT another person with a small caliber handgun

OR

(2) People who have BEEN SHOT with a small caliber handgun

The question is: Will a small caliber handgun do a good enough job of protecting me or is it a false sense of security?

Colossal Urprising 03-14-2011 09:32 AM

There are ways of testing ballistics without having shot someone or being shot by. If someone is here after being shot by, then they are either a criminal or stupid.

Here is a ballistics test posted on another forum I am on.

TEST ONE

.380ACP Federal Personal Defense (90 gr. Hydrashok)

Calibration = 3.1875" velocity = 582 ft./s.

Shot 1 - Penetrated 12.5"

Shot 2 - Exited block at 11.9375"

Shot 3 - Penetrated 12.4375"

Shot 4 - Penetrated 11.9375"

Shot 5 - Penetrated 12.0625"

Average impact velocity = 843 ft./s.

Average recovered diameter = 0.469"

Firearm = Kel-Tec P3AT


TEST TWO

Hello. I tested 5 rounds of .380ACP Federal Personal Defense from a P3AT in Ballistic Gelatin last weekend.

The gelatin was Vyse brand, mixed at 10% concentration into an FBI sized block (6x6x16)". Calibration BB traveled at 594 fps and penetrated 9.4cm.

The front of the block was covered in 1 layer of 100% cotton, new and unwashed, fruit-of-the-loom T-shirt material. This material was chosen after reviewing several 100s of mugshot photos of violent criminals and their choice of upper body clothing. It also is representative of clothing worn most of the time in the southern US, where I live.

Average penetration was 12.0"
Average expansion was 0.476"
Average impact velocity was 839fps.

Lot number = 2 09H449

This test was undertaken to find an expanding load for a semiauto .380ACP with a short barrel, that would penetrate to FBI minimum penetration depth. This turned out to be a very hard thing to do, with only the Federal load making the cut. I would seriously recommend to short-barreled .380ACP owners to test your bullets in a valid medium or have them tested by someone qualified to do so.


Here is a ballistics comparison between 9mm and .380.
9mm Versus .380 ACP For Self-Defense

danf_fl 03-14-2011 10:24 AM

Sometimes, the just the sight of any firearm could stop an altercation.

But I don't like to bluff with a pair of 2's in a poker game, so I won't take a chance with a .22 when my life is on the line.

Car54 03-14-2011 10:59 AM

In 30 some years I cannot recall any incident where clothing stopped a round. I have seen badges, notebooks, pens, wallets, and other objects stop or deflect a round.

As to the smaller calibers, don't discount the damage they can do. Countless times I have seen gunshot victims die when shot with .22's and .25's. The bullet entered a part of the body and then zig zagged after bouncing off bones like a pinball and either exiting or remaining inside and causing so much internal damage the person died.

cddbrowns 03-14-2011 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car54 (Post 464557)
In 30 some years I cannot recall any incident where clothing stopped a round. I have seen badges, notebooks, pens, wallets, and other objects stop or deflect a round.

As to the smaller calibers, don't discount the damage they can do. Countless times I have seen gunshot victims die when shot with .22's and .25's. The bullet entered a part of the body and then zig zagged after bouncing off bones like a pinball and either exiting or remaining inside and causing so much internal damage the person died.

I have to agree with this, any type of projectile flying at the speed ammo does is going to cause enough damage to either seriously hurt if not kill. I have an LCP and although I would rather be shot with that than the 1911, it would still be luck that would bring me out alive if not seriously hurt.

IGETEVEN 03-14-2011 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDVague (Post 464507)
In this discussion, small caliber means anything from .380 and smaller. I have read several discussions with statements about small calibers like "with heavy clothing a BG might not feel it" or "it will only piss off a BG on drugs". I'd like to hear from two groups in this thread.

(1) People who have SHOT another person with a small caliber handgun

OR

(2) People who have BEEN SHOT with a small caliber handgun

The question is: Will a small caliber handgun do a good enough job of protecting me or is it a false sense of security?

I will say this, never underestimate any small caliber, or the damage it can do. They will, and can indeed kill you.

Close proximity shots and placement, soft tissue targets, head, face, neck, chest, arms, groin, legs, feet. Keep firing, making all rounds count.

And I have never been attacked by a block of ballistics gel.....just saying. :cool:

utf59 03-14-2011 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Car54 (Post 464557)
In 30 some years I cannot recall any incident where clothing stopped a round. I have seen badges, notebooks, pens, wallets, and other objects stop or deflect a round.

As to the smaller calibers, don't discount the damage they can do. Countless times I have seen gunshot victims die when shot with .22's and .25's. The bullet entered a part of the body and then zig zagged after bouncing off bones like a pinball and either exiting or remaining inside and causing so much internal damage the person died.

There are cases, though where clothing has filled the hollow area of a hollowpoint bullet, causing it to fail to expand. That usually happens with much heavier clothing than a T-shirt, but it does happen. And that can dramatically affect the damage the bullet will do internally.

Car54 03-14-2011 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utf59 (Post 464683)
There are cases, though where clothing has filled the hollow area of a hollowpoint bullet, causing it to fail to expand. That usually happens with much heavier clothing than a T-shirt, but it does happen. And that can dramatically affect the damage the bullet will do internally.

I have heard that before and it's very possible, but I'm saying with over 30 years of LEO work I have not seen it happen.

7point62 03-15-2011 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colossal Urprising (Post 464532)
If someone is here after being shot, then they are either a criminal or stupid.


Or...as in my case...didn't duck fast enough. :)

cddbrowns 03-15-2011 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7point62 (Post 465200)
Or...as in my case...didn't duck fast enough. :)

Or their home was invaded, or they were in the military being shot at, or they....


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