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Old 09-30-2013, 04:13 AM   #51
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Just my thoughts, and opinion. I don't use a retention holster because my right hand does one thing, grab, and draw the gun. Adding an index (trigger) finger manipulation into the draw is not for me.

If it works for you, awesome, I am not that talented. I like KISS.
I only open carry when out on our property as it is the only place legal in Texas. That being said, I wear a retention holster while there because quite often as I am usually working a chainsaw or doing other work that has me in odd positions.

There have been a few times when a rattlesnake or skunk came from no where and I went to draw, only to fumble with the button or just forget that step.

If I had the choice of open carry with retention or concealed without, I would choose conceal.
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:17 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_G

Just my thoughts, and opinion. I don't use a retention holster because my right hand does one thing, grab, and draw the gun. Adding an index (trigger) finger manipulation into the draw is not for me.

If it works for you, awesome, I am not that talented. I like KISS.
Not all retention devices involve your index finger.



image-316859311.jpg



image-1972769060.jpg



image-999015141.jpg



image-455783134.jpg

This holster is triple retention and the time to unholster is pretty much identical to one without retention.

Thumb comes down hard on lever which pushes forward revealing button which is pushed down in the same motion releasing the gun. It's very natural. It almost happens on its own without conscious thought from me.

Retention is important. If you are going to open carry you should have retention on your holster.

1) To keep your gun from coming out when you are running

2) To keep it from falling out if an object catches the gun and pulls on it (a seatbelt, tree branch, and pole sticking out from the wall all jarred my gun enough to knock it loose from the snap strap before I bought this nice holster. So it can happen.)

3) To keep it from falling out if you end up in a scuffle. (Saw this happen first hand. With a very tight fitting molded leather holster.)

4) To keep the bad guy from easily pulling it out if he tries.

(There is a law enforcement video of a BG knocking a female unconscious with 1 punch, and then yanking on her holster for several minutes trying to figure out how to get the gun out and kill her with it. The holster saved her life.

It could happen to you too. To pick a popular example that occurred with a CCP holder NOT a LEO: Zimmerman and Martin were allegedly fighting over his gun at one point and this was BEFORE Zimmerman unholstered. [[Zimmerman's weapon became visible at some point during the struggle, he wasn't open carrying.]])
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:18 PM   #53
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What model of holster is that Delta?
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:44 PM   #54
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Sounds like they must have chilled out at OPSO range.

As far as retention holsters, mine have adjustments that make them pretty tight. Nothing against them if they work for you. Just not for me.

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Old 10-01-2013, 12:54 AM   #55
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What model of holster is that Delta?
It's a Safariland 6378 ALS Concealment Paddle Holster. The thumb switch is an add on to bring it from level II to level III

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_G

As far as retention holsters, mine have adjustments that make them pretty tight. Nothing against them if they work for you. Just not for me.

When properly adjusted a GOOD retention holster will work for EVERYONE. If it doesn't "work for you" then you didn't buy the right one or you didnt have it set up right. It's mandatory for our agency. Out of over 1000 officers, not a single one has been unable to find a level III retention solution that did not work excellently for them.

Most carry safariland because they have different add ons that can be mixed and matched, and they are easy to adjust.
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:19 AM   #56
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It's a Safariland 6378 ALS Concealment Paddle Holster. The thumb switch is an add on to bring it from level II to level III




When properly adjusted a GOOD retention holster will work for EVERYONE. If it doesn't "work for you" then you didn't buy the right one or you didnt have it set up right. It's mandatory for our agency. Out of over 1000 officers, not a single one has been unable to find a level III retention solution that did not work excellently for them.

Most carry safariland because they have different add ons that can be mixed and matched, and they are easy to adjust.
If I found one that worked exactly with my draw, I would most likely buy one. Just to prevent the odd chance the gun might fall out of the holster. The one above, with the thumb activation, I am giving it some second thoughts. I would not buy one that required an index finger activation. Again, that is just me.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:25 AM   #57
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Quote:
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If I found one that worked exactly with my draw, I would most likely buy one. Just to prevent the odd chance the gun might fall out of the holster. The one above, with the thumb activation, I am giving it some second thoughts. I would not buy one that required an index finger activation. Again, that is just me.
The issue a lot of people have with retention comes in when they buy holsters that are not commonly used by law enforcement, just because they are cheap or because they are a certain brand that may have worked well for something like conceal carry. By and large with retention holsters, you get what you pay for.

Or the flip side, they saw a cop carrying a certain one and he told them it was the greatest thing since the invention of the modern rifle cartridge.

I'm not saying this applies in your situation, I don't know what you bought or why.

Retention holster purchases are as serious of a purchase as an actual firearm. There are moving parts involved and if they fail to disengage the pistol cannot be removed without taking the holster apart.

That's why I always recommend using a holster that is made specifically for and is in current use by law enforcement. You also should always practice steps of the draw with that holster in the store before you purchase it whenever practical. Just like you should shoot a gun before you buy it.

I personally agree with you concerning the trigger finger release. I don't like it. It's begging for a misfire IMO. I also don't like the new hoods in use by some agencies. Most of the guys I work with took theirs off as soon as they left the equipment shed at the range. But there are lots more who are proficient with both hoods and front button releases and swear by them.

I spend every bit as much time working with a retention holster as I do with a firearm before I make a purchase, and developing proficiency after the purchase. Actually I spend more time on steps of the draw with each holster than I do shooting. As a law enforcement officer I carry all the time, and every time I put a holster on or pull my pants up and reattach and realign my equipment after using the bathroom I release my retention devices and unseat the gun just as a self assurance thing.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:10 AM   #58
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The issue a lot of people have with retention comes in when they buy holsters that are not commonly used by law enforcement, just because they are cheap or because they are a certain brand that may have worked well for something like conceal carry. By and large with retention holsters, you get what you pay for.

Or the flip side, they saw a cop carrying a certain one and he told them it was the greatest thing since the invention of the modern rifle cartridge.

I'm not saying this applies in your situation, I don't know what you bought or why.

Retention holster purchases are as serious of a purchase as an actual firearm. There are moving parts involved and if they fail to disengage pistol cannot be removed without taking the holster apart.

That's why I always recommend using a holster that is made specifically for and is in current use by law enforcement. You also should always practice steps of the draw with that holster in the store before you purchase it whenever practical. Just like you should shoot a gun before you buy it.

I personally agree with you concerning the trigger finger release. I don't like it. It's begging for a misfire IMO. I also don't like the new hoods in use by some agencies. Most of the guys I work with took theirs off as soon as they left the equipment shed at the range. But there are lots more who are proficient with both hoods and front button releases and swear by them.

I spend every bit as much time working with a retention holster as I do with a firearm before I make a purchase, and developing proficiency after the purchase. Actually I spend more time on steps of the draw with each holster than I do shooting. As a law enforcement officer I carry all the time, and every time I put a holster on or pull my pants up and reattach and realign my equipment after using the bathroom I release my retention devices and unseat the gun just as a self assurance thing.
And I appreciate your experience and will look into that holster. There is no place around here I know of to practice with a holster before buying. I will be the first to say I have much to learn, is that not why we ask questions? My way is not the only, or best way, it is just the path I am on.

Being non LEO, not much love for people wanting to draw from the holster at the ranges.

Always good to hear an alternative point of view.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:34 AM   #59
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Delta, I've used a Blackhawk Serpa CQC for OWB during the winter for a few years now. Why is that type begging for a mis-fire? I heard someone else talking about it, but it wasn't explained very well.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:25 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_G

And I appreciate your experience and will look into that holster. There is no place around here I know of to practice with a holster before buying. I will be the first to say I have much to learn, is that not why we ask questions? My way is not the only, or best way, it is just the path I am on.

Being non LEO, not much love for people wanting to draw from the holster at the ranges.

Always good to hear an alternative point of view.
I definitely can understand the store issue. I don't know much about these anal uptight ranges though. We have our own range and our guys do what they want within the range rules, which are pretty basic muzzle and trigger discipline. There's not even range staff monitoring what we do unless we're doing offical training or qualifications.

You could try practicing unholstering in front of a bathroom mirror with an empty firearm. Or if you are willing to spend about $50, we practice all of our weapons retention and disarming with red guns. Even the most anal range staff member would probably keep their mouth shut if you spent a little time in your lane practicing steps of the draw with one of these. And your wife might be more sympathetic if she walked in the bathroom and saw the unholstered red gun in your hand instead of the real deal.

image-3869736473.jpg

https://asp-usa.com/store/training/red-gun.html

They have exact replicas of most of the popular carry guns. They also have inert training magazines for a couple of different manufacturers.

They even carry red long guns and training knifes if you're into martial arts and want to do some realistic disarming training.
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