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JonM 06-01-2011 10:41 PM

Self-defence or murder?
my opinion after watching the vid. he was spot on until he walked up to the kid and fired 5 more into him. at that point its a clear cut case of murder. the jury rendered the proper verdict. this is a key learning lesson on when self defense crosses the line into vigilante style murder.

for the full news report:

Self-defence or murder? Outrage as pharmacist who shot 16-year-old trying to rob his shop gets life sentence | Mail Online


Self-defence or murder? Outrage as pharmacist who shot 16-year-old trying to rob his shop gets life sentence
raw video:

Johnnyb 06-01-2011 10:50 PM

It became murder when the kid was (and had been for a length of time) lying defenseless on the floor and the guy walked back up to him and killed him. If I was on the jury I may would have tried for a lesser charge like manslaughter where he still would have been punished, but not to the same extent.

orangello 06-01-2011 11:02 PM

I think the defense contention was that the guy on the floor was still struggling and looking threatening. I just don't think i buy that, BUT i was not there to witness it. It appeared that the one with the gun had already taken off, lowering my impression of the threat level to the "beat him with a stick" level. Heck, dude was in a pharmacy with gunshot wounds; if he was threatening, dump a gallon of alcohol on him & watch him twitch until the ambulance arrives (maybe while holding a lighter).

JonM 06-01-2011 11:10 PM

the whole coming back thing to shoot again is what he did wrong. even if the goblin had a gun in hand the pharmacist did not appear to have a pressing need to return to the part of the store the goblin was bleeding out in.

the whole calmly walk over and execute the goblin thing is what is wrong regardless of how much the little sht deserved it.

CHLChris 06-01-2011 11:33 PM

Because it is unclear in the video, is this the order?

1) Robberitos enter store
2) Owner shoots back
3) One is shot, falls to ground
4) Two runs out
5) Owner chases Two, who gets away
6) Owner returns, walking past One
7) Owner reloads or gets second gun
8) Owner walks over to One and shoots him, killing him?

Wow! I don't know about 1st degree murder with a life sentence. If nothing else, adrenaline brought on by brazen gun-wielding robberitos would seem to be some sort of defense.

But, he seemed to do the absolute WRONG thing and deserves some punishment. I just don't think a life term.

We don't know what the jury was given as options. My knowledge of criminal law is just TV, but I don't think juries can just choose what crime to find the defendant guilty of. If the prosecution gave them murder or walk free, they perhaps just chose guilty. I think they're right.

Just don't know about a life sentence.

IGETEVEN 06-02-2011 12:45 AM

Yup, he stepped on it big time. The threat was down, hell he could have just walked over there and head stomped the kid once for a final measure, and he probably would be a free man today.

Recon 173 06-02-2011 06:27 AM

The bad guy committing an armed robbery had nothing coming. I wouldn't of done what the pharmacist did but the only one who can tell us if he felt threatened is the pharmacist. I wouldn't of found him guilty of murder. Maybe some lesser offense. Murder is taking it too far. But the thing is that as a society we are STILL failing to punish the criminals we arrest and convict and we give too many criminals shoulders to cry upon. We need to make them held accountable for their crimes no matter what. Obviously, this bad guy had a real bad day so he paid his penalty. I don't think that we will ever see a really great punishment system any more in our country.

jgand72 06-02-2011 03:31 PM

Once that BG was on the ground, the owner should have called the police and held him at gunpoint until they arrived. I know adrenaline had to be pumping, along with anger, but he had to know that he would be in some trouble for executing the robber.

orangello 06-02-2011 06:01 PM

I thought this one over and came to a simple conclusion: If he wanted to be sure that the robber was dead, he should have made the first shots count more. Maybe he should've used a shotgun or gotten some more range time, but a NY reload followed by a coupdegras just ain't gonna cut it.

Lesson learned here; i will be scheduling more range time & re-evaluating my SD ammo.

dog2000tj 06-02-2011 07:03 PM

My feelings are a bit mixed on this :o

As for the criminal I have no regards for him, 16yo or not. He's a thief and I detest thieves. He came into someones place of business and pointed a firearm at the Pharmacist. Whether or not he actually did harm is moot to me. If he wasn't stopped now who knows what would have happened the next time he robbed someone. :mad:

As for the pharmacist I can't agree with murder charges. Maybe he went overboard but they way I feel about thieves I can't say I agree with that either. He had a gun pointed at him while someone was trying to rob the business he owns. This is his livelihood, how he supports himself and possibly his family. From the looks of the video this is an old timer who possibly spent decades tending his business.

I've said it before, we are too damned lenient on criminals here. And again the fact that this kid was 16yo shouldn't mean squat! He put on the big boy pants the second he tried to rob someone at gunpoint. In my humble opinion the criminal got what he deserved and the pharmacist is being unfairly judged.

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