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Old 10-12-2012, 05:36 AM   #41
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Canebrake Question.? The magazine that is removed from the gun that just was used in the shooting,Do you turn that over to the responding police.? I am sure they would want the original magazine with the spent rounds in it, That were used instead of the new full magazine that you loaded into that gun.?

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Old 10-13-2012, 12:36 AM   #42
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Canebrake Question.? The magazine that is removed from the gun that just was used in the shooting,Do you turn that over to the responding police.? I am sure they would want the original magazine with the spent rounds in it, That were used instead of the new full magazine that you loaded into that gun.?
The spent brass is lying on the deck, not in the mag.

I'm sure they have frisked you and have the tactical reload mag and what-ever-else (knife, mag pouch, wallet...) you had in your pockets in their chain of custody inventory.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:38 AM   #43
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Tks buddy, sometimes I ignore the obvious.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:24 AM   #44
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While most of the post is spot on, I must, I say must, take issue with the "approach" the bad guy. One never approaches the downed perp! Retreat, reload, keep the perp in view, but do not approach! That will get you killed!

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Read this before you decide to carry!

Note to ALL: This is a canebrake process and in no way to be taken as a "MUST FOLLOW" set of instructions to be followed by the sheeple herd or other Nancy Boys engaged in interwebz flaming. This is not a FireArmsTalk.com endorsed or condoned doctrine. It is however, a philosophy applied by this 66 year old gun totin' codger that has served him well.

Regardless of whether justified or not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.

If you are involved in a shooting and are the survivor, this is the canebrake MUST DO:

During the first second of post-shooting quiet, do a tactical reload and store the ejected, but not yet empty mag in a convenient pocket, DO NOT put it in your mag pouch! This will prevent you from grabbing it later thinking its fresh. During this reload do a 360 sweep clearing the area for additional BGs.

Draw down on the Bad Guy's center mass and watch his hands as you approach. Hands kill! Everything else is just a distraction! Clear the Tango of any weapons and make sure he is no longer a threat. DO NOT shoot again unless he moves at you. By this time you will more than likely be on someone's candid camera!

If the Tango is no longer a threat, safe and holster your weapon. The officers responding have no idea what has happened, won't know who the good guy is, won't know who the bad guy is, and if they find you standing over a body with a gun in your hand you're likely to get a bad reaction.

While keeping a safe distance, stay alert! This guy was trying to kill you just minutes ago! Continue your 360 sweeps for any BG’s that may show up! Start yelling "CALL 911! CALL EMS!". DO THIS until someone confirms they have called!

If you are alone, use your cell phone to call 911 and tell them "There has been a shooting at **your location**, get here fast!" and say nothing more. Do Not hang up and set the phone down while still connected to the 911 operator allowing then to find you. Do not speak to anyone, frequently visually clear the area for BGs and wait until the police/EMS arrives. When the first responders arrive, hurry them to the Tango to provide assistance. I don't care a rat's bottom about the Tango but what I do care about is having the first responder put in his report that when he rolled up on the scene that I was trying to save the Tango’s life! That single statement in his report will show contrition on my part and instantly protect me from a prosecutor trying to portray me as the CCW permit holder and a blood-thirsty vigilante.

When asked by the police the only thing you EVER say is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please let me speak with my attorney. I assure you that you will have my full cooperation after I consult with my attorney."

You will need to surrender your identification, CCW license and weapon. With this completed, request to be released to return home, you’re about to be sick. If everything is in order they should return your ID and CCWL and let you go. With the exception of yes or no answers to ID questions or to point out the location of the Tango's weapon, DO NOT answer any other questions! You have invoked the attorney card and are not required to speak to them. You are upset, sick and want to go home! By now they have run and verified your info, know where you live and should let you go.
If the police persist with questioning you do have an option. If you are convinced they intend to run you through the grinder tell them you are so upset that you are having chest pains. (You may actually be having chest pains.) They will have to send you to the hospital and admit you to intensive care, probably for 24 hours. You cannot be questioned further and certainly not in intensive care. You will then have time to THINK, gather your composure and visit with your lawyer. This will also be part of your record as to how upset and afraid you really were.
Remember it is the LEO's job to produce evidence, he is not your friend and anything you say can be used against you. Keep your mouth shut!

Be sure you have a lawyer prior to carrying. Call the attorney now. If it's late, you will probably get a service or machine. Go on record then, do not wait until you can speak to him in person and leave this message; "This is (You) and I require your services for a shooting I was involved in." NEVER (did I say never?) say you shot somebody, not to anyone other than your retained lawyer and not even to him on the phone.

If you re-read the above you will notice you have NOT once said you shot your gun much less the Tango. You have not lied but more importantly, you have not provided the Tango's legal defense team anything they can run with. This is very important. Invoke the attorney card and say nothing, even when questioned about you gun being fully loaded. You are not required to! Keep saying, "I'm sick and need to go home."



CCW is what I perceive to be the most personally responsible decision I have made third only to my wedding vows and active service to this great country. Concealed carry is NOT playing cowboys and indians (pardon my age tell) and I’m afraid that’s exactly what many are doing today. When we post encounters as entertainment rather than a positive outcome from our correct decisions we only feed to a “Denny Crain” type response.

When you decide to carry a concealed weapon, you have burdened yourself with tremendous responsibilities including, but not limited to, physical fitness, firearm and CQB training, in-depth knowledge and handling skills of your weapon of choice and the moral obligation that the issuing authority extracts from you when you applied for the CCW license.

When your 'go criteria' are met, you MUST draw your concealed carry and if nothing else has changed, it’s not time to talk, it's time to use the deadly force you have trained to render. If that reaction isn’t one smooth ‘muscle memory’, you’re dead! PLEASE NOTICE: I did not say if you draw you must shoot. That’s why I included the “CHANGE” caveat because if the BG turned and ran I would clear the area and then reholster.

I would also report the incidence to the local police/county sheriff. This gives them a heads-up on the BG in their area and protects me for going non-concealed. Brandishing, here in South Florida, is prosecuted harshly to control the gangsters and road rage.

There is no fun in concealed carry; it’s a profession that must be executed by professionals. If you do not embrace this school of thought, you have no business being armed. If you don't embrace this, it is my fear that I or my loved ones could become part of your collateral damage.

I need to emphasize the gravity of this carry decision with these two points;

A. Use your head (your most powerful weapon) and only draw and fire your weapon to save you or someone’s life. This is the only righteous shooting. Anything else will find you in a cage or a box. Long before you put yourself in the ‘shoot’ position, you better have completed all the legal requirements that allow you to be there. In addition you must complete the following personal conditions;
  1. Training,
  2. Understand and accept the moral obligation that the issuing authority extracts from you when you applied for the CCW license,
  3. Training,
  4. The moral mettle to take a life,
  5. Training,
  6. Know and keep up on the laws covering carry in the location you are armed (political boundaries and building restrictions),
  7. Training,
  8. At a bare minimum have a gun rights lawyer’s phone number on your cell’s speed dial,
  9. Training,
  10. Retain that lawyer if you can afford it,
  11. and did I mention training?
B. See A or you will get yourself killed!

We are neither a vigilante nor a hired gun, just a survivalist.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:32 AM   #45
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Great read. Thanks Cane. Definitely a eye opener for some.

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Old 12-03-2012, 06:21 PM   #46
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Can't give a "like" on the phone, but consider it done. That's the best advice I've read on this forum!

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Old 12-07-2012, 08:57 PM   #47
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This Wisconsin person did it all pretty well.......

Man holds road rage suspects at gunpoint
7:12 PM, Dec 5, 2012 |
man with a concealed carry permit held two people at gunpoint Tuesday after the duo rammed him on Highway 29 and then began beating him in a road rage incident, according to police.
Wausau officers and a deputy from the Marathon County Sheriff’s Department were called at about 1 p.m. to a road rage hit-and-run crash on Highway 29 near Highway O. A 49-year-old man from Appleton reported the SUV he was driving was rammed from behind by a van he had passed on the highway, and a 911 dispatcher directed the caller to pull off the road into the Menards parking lot on Wausau’s west side to await officers.
The driver of the SUV, who holds a permit allowing him to carry a concealed pistol, told police he pulled the gun and pointed it at the driver and an occupant of the van after they started beating him and stabbing him with car keys, according to the police report. When police arrived, the man unloaded his weapon and placed it on the seat, police said. No shots were fired.
According to a Wausau Police Department report, the driver of the van, Nicholas Flanagan, 30, and the passenger in the van, Jessica Ratliff, 26, both of Menominee, Mich., were arrested and booked on preliminary misdemeanor charges of battery and disorderly conduct. No charges were filed against the man with the gun, who alerted the 911 dispatcher he had the weapon and a concealed carry permit before officers arrived at the scene, police said.
Wausau Deputy Police Chief Bryan Hilts said this is the first incident he can recall in Wausau involving someone with a concealed carry permit using a gun to protect himself. Wisconsin’s concealed carry law, which took effect Nov. 1, 2011, allows those who undergo training and pass a background check to have a pistol or other weapon.
Wisconsin Department of Justice spokeswoman Dana Brueck said that as of Nov. 25, more than 156,000 concealed carry permit applications have been processed and more than 142,000 licenses have been issued in Wisconsin since the concealed carry law went into effect last year. The Department of Justice does not track applications by county, Brueck said

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20121205/WDH0101/312050539/Man-holds-road-rage-suspects-gunpoint?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|WDH-News|s

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Old 12-07-2012, 10:14 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by therukh View Post
While most of the post is spot on, I must, I say must, take issue with the "approach" the bad guy. One never approaches the downed perp! Retreat, reload, keep the perp in view, but do not approach! That will get you killed!

The Rukh
Did you read?

Draw down on the Bad Guy's center mass and watch his hands as you approach. Hands kill! Everything else is just a distraction! Clear the Tango of any weapons and make sure he is no longer a threat. DO NOT shoot again unless he moves at you. By this time you will more than likely be on someone's candid camera!

If the Tango is no longer a threat, safe and holster your weapon. The officers responding have no idea what has happened, won't know who the good guy is, won't know who the bad guy is, and if they find you standing over a body with a gun in your hand you're likely to get a bad reaction.

While keeping a safe distance, stay alert! This guy was trying to kill you just minutes ago! Continue your 360 sweeps for any BG’s that may show up!


What's your issue?
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:16 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by jgoertz View Post
Can't give a "like" on the phone, but consider it done. That's the best advice I've read on this forum!
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"...if doves shot back, there wouldn't be a need for a bag limit."
- orangello
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:49 PM   #50
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Great guidelines to go by, bravo. I always read every ccw article I can, like you said most power weapon is your brain. The more useful information I read over and over, makes me believe I will recall it in a time of need and react appropriately. May I add : after the "incident" and being held/questioned by police, telling them you "have chest pains/feel sick" cannot be repeated enough. Asking to be sent to a hospital may be better looking on paper than " going home" though. Again spot on, if you have a ccw permit this should be mandatory reading no matter how experienced you think you are.

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