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Old 07-20-2012, 02:29 PM   #31
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You honestly think you will get in legal trouble because you didnt render aid to someone who just tried to kill you? I could be a brain surgeon and not get in trouble for doing nothing. Its not my job to help someone who tries to murder me.
Like I said, check your local laws, but to answer your question it is a very real possibility. Many states have laws on the books requiring medically trained personnel to render aid within the scope of their training. If you fail to render that aid, and those laws are on the books in your state, you could be prosecuted. You could also have your refusal held against you in civil court.

On the flip side, if you do render aid and the patient has a less than a stellar outcome, Good Samaritan laws should help you both criminally and civilly. Either way, if your state has Good Samaritan laws on the books the odds are better than even that they also have laws requiring you to provide aid within the scope of your training.

As a trained first responder if you do fail or refuse to render aid you better have a very good reason. An unsafe scene would be considered a very good reason. *wink wink nudge nudge*

Judging by your answer quoted above I get the impression that you are using justice as a basis for your opinion. Don't ever confuse justice with law. Remember OJ? How about Casey Anthony or George Zimmerman? I really don't care one way or the other whether you render aid. I only suggest that you become familiar with your local laws regarding your responsibilities in case the situation ever does come up. Here's hoping you never find yourself in that position.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:31 PM   #32
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Like I said, check your local laws, but to answer your question it is a very real possibility. Many states have laws on the books requiring medically trained personnel to render aid within the scope of their training. If you fail to render that aid, and those laws are on the books in your state, you could be prosecuted. You could also have your refusal held against you in civil court.

On the flip side, if you do render aid and the patient has a less than a stellar outcome, Good Samaritan laws should help you both criminally and civilly. Either way, if your state has Good Samaritan laws on the books the odds are better than even that they also have laws requiring you to provide aid within the scope of your training.

As a trained first responder if you do fail or refuse to render aid you better have a very good reason. An unsafe scene would be considered a very good reason. *wink wink nudge nudge*

Judging by your answer quoted above I get the impression that you are using justice as a basis for your opinion. Don't ever confuse justice with law. Remember OJ? How about Casey Anthony or George Zimmerman? I really don't care one way or the other whether you render aid. I only suggest that you become familiar with your local laws regarding your responsibilities in case the situation ever does come up. Here's hoping you never find yourself in that position.
I'm afraid he's right
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:49 PM   #33
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I'm afraid he's right
I would rather drink turpintine an piss on a brush fire than help some ja out that tried to kill me
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:31 PM   #34
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I live in NYS and my greatest fear is being in a situation requiring deadly physical force, either to defend family or self or an innocent. That being said, close second is the whats next. Years ago as a requirement for my employment I had to take "Justification on the use of force" courses provided through a local police academy. There are many consequences that occur as has been pointed out when a citizen deprives another citizen of his personal rights / liberties or life. IMHO it should scare the snot out of anyone the idea of shooting another human being. But, again, as a citizen we also have a civic duty to protect and defend ourselves and families and innocents from evil where it is in our power to do so.
Cane, you gave a very well thought out and comprehensive dissertation as to a post-shooting scenerio. Of course you can't possibly cover all aspects of all situations but as I see it there was a lot of wisdom and thought put into your words. Thank you for posting.

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Old 08-06-2012, 06:43 AM   #35
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Hello fellow gun owners. And hopefully, fellow NRA members. I am new to this forum, but long in tooth in the firearms world. I am also a retired California Chief of Police, now residing in the free state of Idaho. If I may be permitted, I would like to add the viewpoint of an old cop and old firearms instructor, to Mr. Canes sage advice.

First, I would like to echo Mr. Canes observations with respect to concealed carry. As he pointed out, having a CCW permit is a very serious and burdensome responsibility. It is not for the faint of heart, the machismo or the "hollywood" warrior. A CCW permit is for one purpose and one purpose only, to protect your life, your loved one's life and in exceptional circumstances, the life of a potential innocent victim. In order to accomplish this task, you must be willing to maintain a level of proficiency with a firearm, as well as a firm understanding of the legal use of force, to withstand judicial scrutiny. In other words, if you are forced to fire the weapon in defense, it is imperative that you did so within the confines of the law and in a manner deemed reasonable and prudent, given the situation. It is also imperative that you fully understand that you are firing only to STOP the immediate threat. If your action should result in a death, it is imperative that judicial review deems that you DID NOT fire with the INTENT to kill. If you take nothing else from my posting but this one point, it may save you from a jail sentence some day, should you find yourself forced to defend a life. A few police officers discovered this important fact the hard way. And law enforcement training on the use of potentially lethal force has changed accordingly.

Which leads me to the subject of a very pet peeve of mine. If you haven't figured it out by now, we all live in a "recorded" world. Virtually everything we say, do or post, short of our "library" time, is open to the world for scrutiny. And should you find yourself in the harsh burn of a hostile media or judicial spotlight, you had better be ready to explain "what you mean't by "better to be judged by 12 than carried by six", or "one shot, one kill". So here's a little bit of advice, knock off the acronyms, euphemisms and "bar bravado". It isn't impressive and you may some day unfortunately find out the real reason why the pen is mightier than the sword.

Lastly, with due respect to Mr. Cane, should you unfortunately find yourself in a lethal force confrontation, DO NOT touch, move, or secure the offending weapon. YOU ARE NOT A COP or crime scene tech. In fact, as far as the police are concerned, until and unless they can establish to the contrary, YOU ARE A SUSPECT in a deadly use of force. Yes, from a sound tactical position, securing the weapon has it's merits. However, the moment you, John or Jane Doe Citizen, touch or move ANY object of potential evidence, particularly a weapon, you have just provided a prosecutor with a plethora of potential charges, innuendos and accusations to send you to jail regardless of the justification of your actions. While I am on the subject, the next person I hear who tells someone that "if you shoot a burglar on your porch be sure to drag them inside your house" I'm going to buy them tickets to a Barbara Streisand concert and handcuff them to the seat! CSI hollywood is a stupid show. I've never seen a crime solved by a meter maid or a crime scene tech. But law enforcement does have some pretty amazing tools at their disposal these days to solve major crimes. Don't EVEN think about covering up a mistake in judgement. Accidents happen, juries understand that, but tampering with evidence is a sure ticket to prison. And forget about carrying cuffs or zip ties or duct tape or rope or whatever. And get off this idea of rendering first aid, UNLESS you made a judgement mistake...then you better do everything possible to care for the wounded. Or, unless you can render first aid without further endangerment or risk to your life. I can assure you, no cop worth their salt is rushing in to render first aid on a suspect they had to shoot UNTIL it is safe to do so!

I'll close my long winded edification with this one last observation and advice. If you had to use lethal force, hopefully you did what you believed you had to do to save a life. As mentioned, the aftermath is going to be hell. Odds are, you will be arrested and handcuffed on the spot. You will most likely be transported to the police department for an interview/interrogation. You will be read your rights and probably booked. If the police know their job, they will take a blood and urine sample from you. Your hands will be swabbed for the gunfire residue test. Your clothes will probably be taken for evidence. As pointed out, the police have a job to do. Treat them with respect, and respectfully exercise your right to counsel before giving any more information than who you are and you were in FEAR for your life. Hopefully, you will be released by OR. But be prepared to have to post a bail. And be prepared mentally to be behind bars, if only for a short period while the initial facts are sorted out. It may not wash out that way, but be prepared just the same.

Good luck and stay safe!

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Old 10-12-2012, 01:05 AM   #36
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Excellent Cane you covered it all I guess, Thanks for the heads up on this really appreciate it.

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Old 10-12-2012, 01:19 AM   #37
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Excellent Cane you covered it all I guess, Thanks for the heads up on this really appreciate it.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:20 AM   #38
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While this zombie thread is awake, what is the best way to pick an attorney? I looked through the local yellow pages and there is around thirty pages of attorneys. What questions do I ask, besides having experience with defending someone involved in a shooting.

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Old 10-12-2012, 01:39 AM   #39
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While this zombie thread is awake, what is the best way to pick an attorney? I looked through the local yellow pages and there is around thirty pages of attorneys. What questions do I ask, besides having experience with defending someone involved in a shooting.
Let me Google that for you
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:54 AM   #40
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Tks buddy, sometimes I ignore the obvious.
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