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Old 06-26-2012, 07:51 PM   #11
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Well said, cane! I've said it a few times here myself. TRAINING, training, training!!! Carrying is not a game.

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Old 06-26-2012, 08:29 PM   #12
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Thank you very much for this advice cane!

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Old 06-26-2012, 09:12 PM   #13
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Thank you Cane for this very informative information.Please explain the reasoning to do a tactical reload immediately following a shooting.
I'm sure there is a good reason for this but I am unable to figure it out. Thank you.
KODEMAN

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Old 06-28-2012, 12:58 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kodeman View Post
Thank you Cane for this very informative information.Please explain the reasoning to do a tactical reload immediately following a shooting.
I'm sure there is a good reason for this but I am unable to figure it out. Thank you.
KODEMAN
In the first seconds of quiet you will be able to hear your heart beat, feel the hair on the back of your neck start to lay down and taste the gun powder still floating in the air....but........unless the slide is in lock-back, you WILL NOT know how many rounds you expended much less, "do I have any left to fend off more tangos should this guy's friends show up?"

Removing the mag and replacing it with a fresh one during your 360º sweep clearing the area for additional BGs answers that question. You will/should be fully loaded, safety off (I think in 1911 terms) and booger-hook off the trigger ready to rock-on should the need arise.

At this time you will draw down on the BG and watch his hands!

Make sense now?

If not, ask more questions! ?
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by canebrake View Post
In the first seconds of quiet you will be able to hear your heart beat, feel the hair on the back of your neck start to lay down and taste the gun powder still floating in the air....but........unless the slide is in lock-back, you WILL NOT know how many rounds you expended much less, "do I have any left to fend off more tangos should this guy's friends show up?"

Removing the mag and replacing it with a fresh one during your 360º sweep clearing the area for additional BGs answers that question. You will/should be fully loaded, safety off (I think in 1911 terms) and booger-hook off the trigger ready to rock-on should the need arise.

At this time you will draw down on the BG and watch his hands!

Make sense now?

If not, ask more questions! ?
How many times do you think this very thing has cost someone a conviction vs acquittal? Being grilled on the witness stand on whether you fired once or more than once. You think you fired once or twice, yet there are six to the chest. You get grilled for being blood thirsty.

Havent they completely proven this in court that it is impossible to accurately and reliably remember how many times you fired. So my philosophy is to fire as fast as I can accurately and controllably while the threat remains a threat. Once he no longer poses a threat, every round afterward is attempted murder. Once you pull the trigger again, you cant take it back.

Again, another outstanding writeup and posting by Canebrake!
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:17 AM   #16
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Good info, cane. Let's hope we don't ever need it.

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Old 06-28-2012, 09:12 AM   #17
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Thanks Cane, it makes alot of sense once it's explained.
Great Posts.

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Old 06-30-2012, 10:41 AM   #18
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When the first responders arrive, hurry them to the Tango to provide assistance. I don't care a rat's bottom about the Tango but what I do care about is having the first responder put in his report that when he rolled up on the scene that I was trying to save the Tango’s life! That single statement in his report will show contrition on my part and instantly protect me from a prosecutor trying to portray me as the CCW permit holder and a blood-thirsty vigilante.
I would like to address this one part of your post. I don't find anything wrong with it, but there is a better way to get your actions into an official report. If you can safely do it, render first aid to the man down. Just make sure it is safe to start first aid, and keep checking to make sure it is safe to continue your efforts. If the scene goes south on you, back off. Start chest compressions if indicated, or just take a shirt and attempt to stop bleeding. Giving aid to the man down makes it mandatory that your actions will at least make it into the EMS report.

If the dispatcher is on the ball, the first people on scene will not be EMS. Until the scene is cleared by the PD or SO you probably won't see anyone except cops and rubberneckers. The rubberneckers observing you trying to render first aid will probably get into the investigation reports as witness statements, but it may not. With the EMS reports they have to document all aid rendered even if it was rendered by someone other than EMS. Make sure EMS and LE know you attempted to render aid and be specific about what you did.

Rendering aid also ties in with what Sniper03 mentioned. You will probably feel some remorse if there is even the smallest doubt in your mind when you replay this with 20/20 hindsight. Rendering aid to the best of your ability and training goes a long way toward easing this remorse. If you are totally untrained, don't worry about it. Do what any reasonable person would do in the same situation. Attempt to stop the bleeding. Nobody expects sidewalk surgery at a trauma surgeons skill level. Just do the best you can.

With that said, I do find your post informative and helpful. It's good advice that any person carrying a weapon of any kind should follow if they ever have to use that weapon. From a .44 mag to a Bud longneck bottle, if you use anything but your hands to defend yourself your post should be used as a guideline of what to do or not do.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:36 PM   #19
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I would like to address this one part of your post. I don't find anything wrong with it, but there is a better way to get your actions into an official report. If you can safely do it, render first aid to the man down. Just make sure it is safe to start first aid, and keep checking to make sure it is safe to continue your efforts. If the scene goes south on you, back off. Start chest compressions if indicated, or just take a shirt and attempt to stop bleeding. Giving aid to the man down makes it mandatory that your actions will at least make it into the EMS report.

If the dispatcher is on the ball, the first people on scene will not be EMS. Until the scene is cleared by the PD or SO you probably won't see anyone except cops and rubberneckers. The rubberneckers observing you trying to render first aid will probably get into the investigation reports as witness statements, but it may not. With the EMS reports they have to document all aid rendered even if it was rendered by someone other than EMS. Make sure EMS and LE know you attempted to render aid and be specific about what you did.

Rendering aid also ties in with what Sniper03 mentioned. You will probably feel some remorse if there is even the smallest doubt in your mind when you replay this with 20/20 hindsight. Rendering aid to the best of your ability and training goes a long way toward easing this remorse. If you are totally untrained, don't worry about it. Do what any reasonable person would do in the same situation. Attempt to stop the bleeding. Nobody expects sidewalk surgery at a trauma surgeons skill level. Just do the best you can.

With that said, I do find your post informative and helpful. It's good advice that any person carrying a weapon of any kind should follow if they ever have to use that weapon. From a .44 mag to a Bud longneck bottle, if you use anything but your hands to defend yourself your post should be used as a guideline of what to do or not do.
Im not a cop. I have no intentions on "playing a cop." But, does it make sense to keep a set of handcuffs at home, and maybe carry a small set of zipcuffs in your pocket out side the home? So that while the man is incappacitated you can eith cuff him or ziptie him behind the back then begin to administer any life saving messures. This would prevent him from assualting you while within arms length. Your not arresting anyone, you are simply doing it for your safety. Which is more important than his life. Cops do it all the time, "for their safety" while conducting stops and pat searches.

It seems like a fine line between performing life saving measures to look better in court and maintaining your upmost personal safety.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:18 PM   #20
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Let's say the BG survives. They might try to say you did more harm than good by rendering aid. Just like I'm not the Police, I'm not an EMT. I'm not touching him.

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