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Old 04-05-2010, 02:40 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Glock30Owner View Post
Not a link to an actual statute that makes printing illegal. Try again.

Maybe you could post the actual text of the law in your state the makes printing a crime along with the link.
Maybe you should go back and reread this thread below. I think your question was answered thoroughly there. I am giving you fair warning sir, do not come back and start any BS here.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/printing-your-cc-23462/

We have already answered you and provided you with the necessary intel. You may have to brush up on your own Google skills and do some research of your own if we have not satisfied your query.

Jack
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:16 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by IGETEVEN View Post
Maybe you should go back and reread this thread below. I think your question was answered thoroughly there. I am giving you fair warning sir, do not come back and start any BS here.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/printing-your-cc-23462/

We have already answered you and provided you with the necessary intel. You may have to brush up on your own Google skills and do some research of your own if we have not satisfied your query.

Jack
No, it was not answered. Many people on this board proclaim that printing is illegal. When I asked for links to the laws, I got attacked and insulted.

If you or other posters can't back up your statements of supposed fact with links to the laws that make printing in any of the 50 states illegal, then I believe you have the obligation to stop making the proclamations.

The research obligation is not on me, but is on those who make a claim of law.

Show me your proof.
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:51 AM   #13
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+1 Gork!
Non Gun Accessories are a great way to draw untrained eyes away from your CC weapons locations. My wife and kids all chuckle at the big cell phone pouch I wear hanging cliped to the weak side front pocket of my jeans. It's big, shiney, non threatening, and draws the eyes of everyone who looks me up and down. The kids tell me I need I new a wiz bang ulta small supper cools do hickey type phone but my big ol ugly dino phone serves a purpose and when there older I'll get a kick out of explaing the method behind by madness.

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Old 04-05-2010, 05:00 AM   #14
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No, it was not answered. Many people on this board proclaim that printing is illegal. When I asked for links to the laws, I got attacked and insulted.

If you or other posters can't back up your statements of supposed fact with links to the laws that make printing in any of the 50 states illegal, then I believe you have the obligation to stop making the proclamations.

The research obligation is not on me, but is on those who make a claim of law.

Show me your proof.

You live in Tennessee and I live in Oklahoma. We do not have Open Carry here, only CC. I don't know what your law is there in Tennessee, But here, If a LEO sees you printing, he has the choice to stop you, ask for ID and CC license, and if he feels you were doing so in a "reckless" or "purposeful" manor he may choose to take further action. If it cannot be proven you INTENDED to "print" then you do not have an offense.

Our CC laws are very similar to Texas' CC laws and they do not have OC either. As stated earlier by one of our Mods and a current LEO:

"IF a person was printing and was warned that he was doing so AND did nothing to rectify the situation, one MAY be able to make a case that he was then engaging in an intentional act because he failed to correct the reckless act." Robocop


I suggest you test your own theory out in your own home state and find out the ramifications and legality involved if you do indeed "print." Carry concealed means just that, and if you do live in a state that allows CC and OC, it will probably not be an issue, unless a LEO feels that there is intent reason to stop you and question your actions while printing.

In other words, it is what each individual state interprets it's severity to be, under their own handgun laws.

If you are indeed an armed security guard as your profile claims, I would think you would be familiar with your own states gun laws in CC. I live in Oklahoma, so I don't give a rat's ass what Tennessee's current CC laws are, but if I venture back up that way, I will damn sure brush up on them.

Jack
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Last edited by IGETEVEN; 04-05-2010 at 05:14 AM. Reason: Grammer
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:19 AM   #15
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You live in Tennessee and I live in Oklahoma. We do not have Open Carry here, only CC. I don't know what your law is there in Tennessee, But here, If a LEO sees you printing, he has the choice to stop you, ask for ID and CC license, and if he feels you were doing so in a "reckless" or "purposeful" manor he may choose to take further action. If it cannot be proven you INTENDED to "print" then you do not have an offense.

Our CC laws are very similar to Texas' CC laws and they do not have OC either. As stated earlier by one of our Mods and a current LEO:

"IF a person was printing and was warned that he was doing so AND did nothing to rectify the situation, one MAY be able to make a case that he was then engaging in an intentional act because he failed to correct the reckless act." Robocop


I suggest you test your own theory out in your own home state and find out the ramifications and legality involved if you do indeed "print." Carry concealed means just that, and if you do live in a state that allows CC and OC, it will probably will not be an issue, unless a LEO feels that there is intent reason to stop you and question your actions while printing.

If you are indeed an armed security as your profile claims, I would think you would be familiar with your own states gun laws in CC. I live in Oklahoma so I don't give a rat's ass what Tennessee's current CC laws are, but if I venture back up that way, I will damn sure brush up on them.

Jack
Please cite the OK law that allows for you statement I bolded. That is all I'm asking for. If you make a claim of legality, post the supporting law.

You mentioned what Robocop posted in another thread. The law he posted only mentioned intentionally not concealing, but doesn't define what is meant by concealing. I'd be very interested in any case law. Even he stated that one MAY make the case, giving me the indication that this probably has not gone to court to be adjudicated.

Now, I am quite familiar with the laws for Tennessee, Kentucky, and Indiana; somewhat familiar with those of Georgia, Pennsylvania, and California.

EDIT: FYI, you may very well have OC in Oklahoma by this time next year. Which will be one less reason to have the angst and anxiety that some people have over printing.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:19 AM   #16
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I stated that as well as Robo, as far as I know, it may not be written anywhere, it is how an individual LEO may interpret it. I can attest to it because I have been stopped and asked the same information I stated above. Case in point, while loading building materials in the back of my truck at a local hardware store one afternoon, my CC weapon was printing against my shirt, mainly due to sweat, and the "printing" was noticeable and I was confronted by a local LEO who happened to be there and noticed it as well. After he briefly questioned me and verified my information and CC license, he told me to carry on and wished me a nice day. All my information was in order, so it was his choice to pursue something or nothing. He was just doing his job to protect and serve. Carrying concealed means to carry concealed, invisible, unnoticeable. Now take that situation and what would have happened if I did not follow the law and just decided to carry concealed without having a CC license. Obviously, I would have been arrested for carrying a concealed weapon without a license and my weapon would have been confiscated until after all litigation was over.

This is taken directly from a Concealed Carry Class curriculum and subject discussion here in Oklahoma. Please read #4 very carefully. You notice the word "printing" is not mentioned specifically, but you may "interpret" it any way you like sir.

FIVE RULES FOR CONCEALED CARRY

1. YOUR CONCEALED HANDGUN IS FOR PROTECTION OF LIFE ONLY. Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and life-threatening criminal actions of another.

2. KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR GUN. A criminal adversary must have, or reasonably appear to have:
A) the ability to inflict serious bodily injury (he is armed or reasonably appears to be armed with a deadly weapon),
B) the opportunityto inflict serious bodily harm (he is physically positioned to harm you with his weapon), and
C) his intent (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy -- to do you serious or fatal physical harm.
When all three of these attack potential elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that justifies an emergency deadly force response.

3. IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY -- RUN! Just because you’re armed doesn’t necessarily mean you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your "situation awareness" skills so you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble altogether. Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might be your bruised ego, which should heal with mature rationalization. But, if you force a confrontation you risk the possibility of you or a family member being killed or suffering lifelong crippling/disfiguring physical injury, criminal liability and/or financial ruin from civil lawsuit. Flee if you can, fight only as a last resort.

4. DISPLAY YOUR GUN, GO TO JAIL. Expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional or innocent or justified the situation might seem. Choose a method of carry that reliably keeps your gun hidden from public view at all times.
You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed handgun. He or she might become alarmed and report you to police as "a man or woman with a gun." Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might be willing to maliciously embellish his or her story in attempt to have your gun seized by police or to get you arrested. An alarmed citizen who reports a "man with a gun" is going to be more credible to police than you when you're stopped because you match the suspect's description, and you are found to have a concealed handgun in your possession.
Before you expose your gun in public, ask yourself: "Is this worth going to jail for?" The only time this question should warrant a "yes" response is when an adversary has at least, both ability and intent, and is actively seeking the opportunity to do you great harm.

5. DON’T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU. If, despite your best efforts to the contrary, you do get into some kind of heated dispute with another person while you’re armed, never mention, imply or exhibit your gun for the purpose of intimidation or one-upmanship. You’ll simply make a bad situation worse -- for yourself (see rule #4).


Now, I tire of this, and it seems you are never going to be satisfied. Consequences of "printing" is what each individual state interprets it's severity to be, and how they choose to enforce it with their own handgun laws. You are probably indeed correct in there not being any substantial case law records or prosecutions for doing it, unless you were illegally CC or in the act of committing a crime
when noticed and stopped for it. Come on Oklahoma OC law.........

Hell, I never claimed to be a lawyer or a LEO, but I have stayed in a Holiday Express a few times.

'nuff said.


Jack
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Last edited by IGETEVEN; 04-05-2010 at 07:35 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:10 AM   #17
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Now, I tire of this, and it seems you are never going to be satisfied.
I would be satisfied with a cite to any law that makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun (by a licensed individual) illegal if that weapon is noticeable through the concealing garment. Hyperbole, strawmen, and anecdotes are not the law.

Just one with stop me from posting on this.

I could care less if you (generic you) worship at the altar of concealment or if you (again the generic you) never cover your carry piece, even if commanded by god. I just want the cites to the law. I don't care what a cop may or may not do. I want the cites to the law that the judge will use to determine if there is or is not a crime.

Can you (generic once more time) give me one?
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock30Owner View Post
I would be satisfied with a cite to any law that makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun (by a licensed individual) illegal if that weapon is noticeable through the concealing garment. Hyperbole, strawmen, and anecdotes are not the law.

Just one with stop me from posting on this.

I could care less if you (generic you) worship at the altar of concealment or if you (again the generic you) never cover your carry piece, even if commanded by god. I just want the cites to the law. I don't care what a cop may or may not do. I want the cites to the law that the judge will use to determine if there is or is not a crime.

Can you (generic once more time) give me one?

Hell you win, with an attitude like that find a damn law on your own. I am sorry I can't give you what you want. Maybe you should use the tenacity you have to get a definite statue quote from any one state's gun law and find the damn answer yourself....oh ya I forgot your an "armed security guard."

Past experiences here on the forum with your type proves you have a Sigmund Freudian Complex associated with sexual dysfunction and disappointment associated by not achieving the real law enforcement job you always wanted, and it is all stems to your mama's fault.

There are other ways to stop you from posting and if you last any longer here, maybe someone else will provide you with the golden answer you seek. You are like a Hobbit on crack with this one sir.

Jack
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Last edited by IGETEVEN; 04-05-2010 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Grammer and tone
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:32 PM   #19
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Who cares what the law is? You're just posting to be argumentative. Don't you know when to back off or rest on your laurels? You're simply posting to argue with a well respected member. You come across as a self proclaimed expert. I live in Ky and I doubt you know Ky gun laws and developments as well as I. If you do, good for you-who cares?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock30Owner View Post
I would be satisfied with a cite to any law that makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun (by a licensed individual) illegal if that weapon is noticeable through the concealing garment. Hyperbole, strawmen, and anecdotes are not the law.

Just one with stop me from posting on this.

I could care less if you (generic you) worship at the altar of concealment or if you (again the generic you) never cover your carry piece, even if commanded by god. I just want the cites to the law. I don't care what a cop may or may not do. I want the cites to the law that the judge will use to determine if there is or is not a crime.

Can you (generic once more time) give me one?
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Old 04-05-2010, 02:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock30Owner View Post
I would be satisfied with a cite to any law that makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun (by a licensed individual) illegal if that weapon is noticeable through the concealing garment. Hyperbole, strawmen, and anecdotes are not the law.

Just one with stop me from posting on this.

I could care less if you (generic you) worship at the altar of concealment or if you (again the generic you) never cover your carry piece, even if commanded by god. I just want the cites to the law. I don't care what a cop may or may not do. I want the cites to the law that the judge will use to determine if there is or is not a crime.

Can you (generic once more time) give me one?
You problem is that you are looking for someone to say there is a law that says "if you intentionally fail to completely conceal evidence of a firearm, you have broken the law." Which is silly. The laws are black and white. It is either concealed or not concealed. If you can see it via "printing", your fate is at the discretion of whatever LEO is observing you. You can take your chances and try a feeble cry of "but where does the law say?" as he's stuffing you into his cruiser and you have lost your handgun to red tape for months to years or maybe forever.

That's what it comes down to. If you don't like an answer here, call a lawyer. Or risk it yourself and see what happens. That's all anyone can do.
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