Open Carry vs Conceal Carry - Page 9
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection > Open Carry vs Conceal Carry

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-09-2013, 09:46 PM   #81
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
manta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK.
Posts: 1,969
Liked 736 Times on 475 Posts
Likes Given: 232

Default

I would assume if someone rings the police reporting that they are concerned after seeing someone with a firearm the police have to respond. Is it not reasonable for the police to ask the individual for identification. If they did not and the person went on to carry out a mass shooting in a school for example the usual suspects would be accusing the police of being negligent.
manta is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 10:27 PM   #82
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 6,165
Liked 5011 Times on 2430 Posts
Likes Given: 1601

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manta View Post
I would assume if someone rings the police reporting that they are concerned after seeing someone with a firearm the police have to respond. Is it not reasonable for the police to ask the individual for identification. If they did not and the person went on to carry out a mass shooting in a school for example the usual suspects would be accusing the police of being negligent.
It is perfectly reasonable for the police to "request" ID... It's also perfectly reasonable for me to refuse... We call it the US Constitution.

Tack
Tackleberry1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 10:39 PM   #83
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 6,165
Liked 5011 Times on 2430 Posts
Likes Given: 1601

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trip286 View Post
To be fair though, if the conversation is about the weather.... sure. I play along.

To add to your comment though, in several, if not many or most, states, you MUST present ID if your asked for it when you're carrying. I believe in some states you have to present ID if you're asked for it, period.
State Laws do differ on this but I'm fairly sure the Court takes precedence and they've already said that "a firearm, when carried in a legal manner, is not reasonable suspicion for an investigative detention."

Long story short, unless an officer can articulate reasonable suspicion of a crime, he has NO right to demand your ID... and refusing to identify yourself is NOT suspicious activity, regardless of what the Cop thinks.

Of course, none of this means that a Cop having a bad day won't arrest you on a trumped up "hampering" charge but it certainly will not stick so it's really just a question of far you are willing to push it.

Tack

Last edited by Tackleberry1; 06-09-2013 at 10:42 PM.
Tackleberry1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 11:31 PM   #84
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Gonzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,932
Liked 330 Times on 253 Posts
Likes Given: 151

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
State Laws do differ on this but I'm fairly sure the Court takes precedence and they've already said that "a firearm, when carried in a legal manner, is not reasonable suspicion for an investigative detention."

Long story short, unless an officer can articulate reasonable suspicion of a crime, he has NO right to demand your ID... and refusing to identify yourself is NOT suspicious activity, regardless of what the Cop thinks.

Of course, none of this means that a Cop having a bad day won't arrest you on a trumped up "hampering" charge but it certainly will not stick so it's really just a question of far you are willing to push it.

Tack

Agree - State laws do differ and even towns within the state can have their own. I just did some research on CT and while the law does NOT state how a licensed carry permit holder can or can not carry, no one has tried to put it to the test. However, you must ID yourself and show your permit if asked. ($75 fine for not carrying your permit)

Breech of Peace seems to be the most commonly associated charge even though the letter of the law states you must "intend" to create a public disturbance, or fighting, threatening, obscene language/gestures.

State Police Memo - Officers can detain you while they figure it all out. If its gone that far, more than likely you will be charged w something.

People have lost permits and guns for up to two years while the review board waits to hear their appeal - not to mention legal fees & court cost. (plus your guns sit in evidence locker w/o maintenance)

Bottom Line: It's a liberal state and if you decide to "push it" - you will more than likely lose. Know your state + towns laws where ever you plan to travel and please remember - a little courtesy - can go a long way.

Last edited by Gonzilla; 06-09-2013 at 11:40 PM.
Gonzilla is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 01:46 AM   #85
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gig Harbor,WA
Posts: 853
Liked 110 Times on 91 Posts
Likes Given: 219

Default

I think that the main point, is to know the law, know your rights, be polite, but dont volunteer anything that you arent required.
phildenton is offline  
Sanchin Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 07:54 AM   #86
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
notoriousM3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: buckeye,arizona
Posts: 67
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

This thread is interesting and informative. The question cops ask that I have a problem with is "Where are you coming from?" The last time I checked I was a free citizen and we are not under marshall law. In other words its none of your business! Although I'm reluctant to take this approach its always in the back of my mind. Fortunately for me I don't get pulled over very often.
notoriousM3 is offline  
Sanchin Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 04:22 PM   #87
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
dragunovsks's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: West of Louisville KY,Indiana
Posts: 2,310
Liked 201 Times on 138 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousM3 View Post
This thread is interesting and informative. The question cops ask that I have a problem with is "Where are you coming from?" The last time I checked I was a free citizen and we are not under marshall law. In other words its none of your business! Although I'm reluctant to take this approach its always in the back of my mind. Fortunately for me I don't get pulled over very often.
If they ask just tell them, "I came from the womb and Ill eventually go to the grave!"

I agree its none of thier business what you are doing, where you're going or where you came from.

I open carry on almost a daily basis and Ive never been questioned by any LEO's. Even after walking right past the local state trooper or county deputys at the gas station or anywhere else in public. Of course I know the local state trooper so he never says anything anyways.
__________________
Century Arms AR-15A2, 5.56
1946 Mosin-Nagant M44, 7.62x54R
1978 YUGO SKS, 7.62x39
NEF Protector Pump, 12 gauge
Savage Model 64, .22LR
NEF Pardner Tracker II, 12 gauge
Rock Island Armory 1911A1, .45 ACP
Remington 870 'Express Magnum' 12 gauge
Bersa Thunder .380

Last edited by dragunovsks; 06-10-2013 at 04:27 PM.
dragunovsks is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 05:14 PM   #88
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 15
Likes Given: 22

Default

I tell them I just came from the (insert police department's) Ball.

"(insert police department's) don't have balls."
Sanchin is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 06:13 PM   #89
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
manta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK.
Posts: 1,969
Liked 736 Times on 475 Posts
Likes Given: 232

Default

Quote:
If they ask just tell them, "I came from the womb and Ill eventually go to the grave!"

I agree its none of thier business what you are doing, where you're going or where you came from.
Ok you can refuse but why would you, seems childish to me.
manta is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 06:27 PM   #90
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 6,165
Liked 5011 Times on 2430 Posts
Likes Given: 1601

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manta View Post
Ok you can refuse but why would you, seems childish to me.
Manta... this is one of those "American" things.

Personally, I would not make any "smart ass" or "childish" comments... I would simply repeat in a polite manner "I'm sorry officer, but I don't answer questions."

The "banter" and seemingly "idle chit chat" LEO's like to use when contacting citizens is anything but innocent conversation.

Anytime a Police Officer initiates contact... it's for the purpose of an investigation whether he tells you this or not. Conversation is the officers way of tripping your up, putting you on the defensive, and it's geared toward the goal of "creating" reasonable suspicion to check your I.D. and search you and your vehicle if you happen to be driving.

UK Subjects may not have a problem with this kind of invasive police work... US Citizens on the other hand get a little pissed off when were treated like criminals, so the best policy to protect ourselves is to politely decline speak with the Police.

They may decide that your assertion of your rights is "suspicious" and search you anyway... and that's fine... any decent Attorney will get any evidence found suppressed in court as long as you DID NOT consent to the search.

NOTE: This would be in regard to an OC encounter, traffic encounter, or any encounter other than a question of CCW status. Where OC is a civil liberty protected by the Constitution, CCW is still considered a "privilege" in most States and comes with a certain level of "implied cooperation"... namely that you will ID yourself as a CCW holder, "if your armed" and upon request... however... this in no way waives your other 4th or 5th Amendment Rights.

Tack

Last edited by Tackleberry1; 06-10-2013 at 06:33 PM.
Tackleberry1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
conceal carry glock73 Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 10 03-26-2013 01:22 AM
Carry conceal reid73 General Handgun Discussion 5 02-20-2013 08:58 PM
Difference between open carry and concealed carry ineverFTF Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 8 08-31-2012 06:11 PM
Not Conceal, but Open Carry about to be illegal in CA! Jeepix Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 23 05-23-2010 07:52 PM
Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Debate Tony Soprano The Club House 31 08-06-2009 04:23 AM



Newest Threads