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Old 06-12-2013, 07:52 PM   #111
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As a STRONG supporter of the RTKABA'S (2nd amendment) I support the open carry 'right'. As a person with 40+ years experience in military and police service I advise against open carry in public for tactical and safety reasons.
I don't "completely" disagree with you Jim... BUT... Tactical and Safety reasons for OC are "sort of" like real-estate... Location, Location, Location.

All of us who posses either Military, LEO, or experience in both seem to "default" to this concern and I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but I do have to stop and question why?

As an Infantry Soldier my weapons were certainly "out there" for all to see... Every LEO begins "in uniform"... again... with there weapon "out there" for all too see.

And I've still not seen examples of OC citizens being attacked in any numbers that are statistically significant enough to warrant such concern on our part?

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Old 06-12-2013, 08:16 PM   #112
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I don't "completely" disagree with you Jim... BUT... Tactical and Safety reasons for OC are "sort of" like real-estate... Location, Location, Location.

All of us who posses either Military, LEO, or experience in both seem to "default" to this concern and I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but I do have to stop and question why?

As an Infantry Soldier my weapons were certainly "out there" for all to see... Every LEO begins "in uniform"... again... with there weapon "out there" for all too see.

And I've still not seen examples of OC citizens being attacked in any numbers that are statistically significant enough to warrant such concern on our part?

Tack
I guess this needs to be considered as COC (civilian open carry) to clarify it.
And if you noticed I said 'in public'. I carry open A LOT here on the place, while hunting, while on horseback, and while 'volunteering' as a deputy.
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:44 AM   #113
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Ive been looking around with little luck for some good reading on how to respond to people when open carrying and they act scared or gawk at my firearm. I want to show them how it's a good thing. Id also like to be able to have a reasonable response to an officer harassing me about oc'ing. Basically, I never paid attentions in history class and don't know how to "respectfully" enforce my rights lol
Being that I am just naturally an ******* and the Army turned that into a fine art for me when I got my E-5 I generally just tell people to screw off. I may or may not be polite about but I make sure to get the point across that I just want to be left alone. I don't particularly get along or even like most people so I am not concerned with offending or upsetting anyone. You can try to be nice god knows I have but it never seems to work with idiots that don't like guns.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:27 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by austin92
Ive been looking around with little luck for some good reading on how to respond to people when open carrying and they act scared or gawk at my firearm. I want to show them how it's a good thing. Id also like to be able to have a reasonable response to an officer harassing me about oc'ing. Basically, I never paid attentions in history class and don't know how to "respectfully" enforce my rights lol
Austin, just the fact that you are concerned shows that you really want to advance carry rights and make it more socially acceptable. More power to you! When dealing with the public, I always smile, keep my hands away from the weapon and say something like "Howdy" or "Good evening" to show I'm just a regular guy. If they are staring, I will ask "Did you have a question?" or "May I be of some assistance?" Smile genuinely, be courteous, hold doors open, and generally be the exact opposite of what the media portrays gun owners/carriers as being. If someone threatens to call the cops/sheriff, be courteous. State that you'll wait right there if they wish to do so. I have offered to make the call for them. This isn't being a smarta$$, but you maintaining control. If you call, you can call the non-emergency dispatch, which should be in your phone, instead of 911 and ask the dispatcher to send a car, as someone there has an issue with your carry gun. Explain that you are open carrying and that you are waiting for the officers quietly. This starts a much less adrenaline-filled scenario. Don't fight or argue with anyone while waiting. Answer questions, but if they get agitated, simply say, "Well, the police will be here shortly." If you are fun, courteous, light-hearted and friendly, they can't really find anything wrong with you.

When dealing with police, make sure you know the law better than they do. Have the applicable law memorized or printed and with you. Obey every command they give you. They may think you look like a wanted suspect and/or may even cuff you for their safety. If you fight and argue with police, in the eyes of the public, you are either a criminal or you were doing something wrong. If you keep your voice even but firm, most police officers will treat you with respect, at least until they determine what is going on. If the officers are not familiar with the open carry laws, state that you have a copy or ask that they check with a superior. Again, be courteous, friendly and firm. Not every street cop knows every law. If you deal fairly with the police, you will go on your way and the public will see you released and the story gets around that it must be legal because you weren't arrested. I treat every run in with officers as a chance for the dozen or so public watching to learn. The more that happens, the more socially acceptable the practice becomes
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:39 AM   #115
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TekGreg very well stated, and nice positive attitude!

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Old 07-06-2013, 07:50 AM   #116
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TekGreg very well stated, and nice positive attitude!
Thanks! Someone has to take the high road. It does no good to get mad at them for being scared of us. Only through our polite actions can we change the minds of the public. I am still hoping to see an open carry organization do a homeless soup kitchen or Christmas gifts for orphans. The news media wouldn't be able to ignore it and it would be a great way to get positive press.
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:43 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by TekGreg

Austin, just the fact that you are concerned shows that you really want to advance carry rights and make it more socially acceptable. More power to you! When dealing with the public, I always smile, keep my hands away from the weapon and say something like "Howdy" or "Good evening" to show I'm just a regular guy. If they are staring, I will ask "Did you have a question?" or "May I be of some assistance?" Smile genuinely, be courteous, hold doors open, and generally be the exact opposite of what the media portrays gun owners/carriers as being. If someone threatens to call the cops/sheriff, be courteous. State that you'll wait right there if they wish to do so. I have offered to make the call for them. This isn't being a smarta$$, but you maintaining control. If you call, you can call the non-emergency dispatch, which should be in your phone, instead of 911 and ask the dispatcher to send a car, as someone there has an issue with your carry gun. Explain that you are open carrying and that you are waiting for the officers quietly. This starts a much less adrenaline-filled scenario. Don't fight or argue with anyone while waiting. Answer questions, but if they get agitated, simply say, "Well, the police will be here shortly." If you are fun, courteous, light-hearted and friendly, they can't really find anything wrong with you.

When dealing with police, make sure you know the law better than they do. Have the applicable law memorized or printed and with you. Obey every command they give you. They may think you look like a wanted suspect and/or may even cuff you for their safety. If you fight and argue with police, in the eyes of the public, you are either a criminal or you were doing something wrong. If you keep your voice even but firm, most police officers will treat you with respect, at least until they determine what is going on. If the officers are not familiar with the open carry laws, state that you have a copy or ask that they check with a superior. Again, be courteous, friendly and firm. Not every street cop knows every law. If you deal fairly with the police, you will go on your way and the public will see you released and the story gets around that it must be legal because you weren't arrested. I treat every run in with officers as a chance for the dozen or so public watching to learn. The more that happens, the more socially acceptable the practice becomes
Great post man! Exactly how one should go about dealing with the general public and LEOs.
Respect is returned in kind as a general rule, snide remarks and attitude will only portray us(the collective we) in a bad light.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:58 PM   #118
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I do acknowledge that a very, very small percentage of people OCing in public may not be legal to do so. I was just questioning the irony of a gun store/range not allowing people to carry openly. If it's a rule that the business owner put in place I would be more than happy to put my gun away for a short walk to get to the range.

I'm just spitballing here, but I would guess that someone who is prohibited to carry/own a gun would might as well try to conceal. If they're going to risk a felony charge, why display it?
I agree it seems ironic that a gun store/range would disallow open carry (where legal). I can understand it if the range has had a number of issues with mall ninjas brandishing. As long as the OCer has a convenient way to conceal temporarily (like untucking a shirt) it's not that big a deal.

But if the OCer does not have a convenient way to conceal it can become a pretty big deal. Similarly ranges that disallow any loaded firearm can have the same problem.

That problem is that it forces their customer to handle their gun before entering the range. In either case, it could become necessary for the customer to sit out in the parking lot with his gun case in the car, unholster the loaded gun in the car, eject the magazine, clear the chamber, try not to lose the loose round, put the gun in the case, put the loaded magazine and loose round in a different case (perhaps) and then get ready to enter the range.

How many ways could something go wrong in that process? Brandishing? Is there a "safe" direction to point while unloading? Unintentional discharge? Loose ammo rolling under car seats?

As many have said already, to each his own. My choice is a range that allows open carry / concealed carry without a lot of mickey mouse. There are still a lot of restrictions on the indoor ranges (no rapid fire, no holster draw, no cross-range shooting are common). But at least they respect the permit to carry.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:07 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by austin92 View Post
Ive been looking around with little luck for some good reading on how to respond to people when open carrying and they act scared or gawk at my firearm. I want to show them how it's a good thing. Id also like to be able to have a reasonable response to an officer harassing me about oc'ing. Basically, I never paid attentions in history class and don't know how to "respectfully" enforce my rights lol
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I've been wondering the same thing, maybe just act polite and try not to draw attention? I'm at a loss
For the gawkers, one thing you should avoid doing at all costs is putting your hand on your gun. Or leaning your elbow on your gun. Basically, your posture and demeanor should be the same as if you had a cell phone holster there. You should probably not initiate any conversation with them. But if they start the conversation, be calm and polite. Be prepared to answer likely questions. Why do you carry? What are you afraid of? etc.

For the LEO who is actually harassing you, you need to know your state's laws very well. In Oklahoma you are required to inform the officer that you are carrying as soon as you practically can on first contact during the course of any arrest, detainment or traffic stop. If the officer requests to see your permit you are required to show it to him.

However, unless there is reasonable suspicion of some other crime, the officer is not authorized to confiscate the gun or physically restrain you. He is not authorized to inspect any weapon properly concealed or unconcealed without probable cause that a crime has been committed.

Whether and to what extent you should resist such unauthorized actions is a situational judgment call you need to make. You should spend some time thinking through how you should respond to this kind of transaction BEFORE you actually are in that situation. Because if a LEO performs one of these unauthorized actions, it will happen suddenly. You won't have time to figure out what you should do in that moment. You will need to have already decided.

You should also try to develop personal habits that minimize the probability of that encounter in the first place. Driving within the limits, using turn signals and headlights regularly, frequenting familiar places as much as possible, avoiding making a spectacle out of your armed status, etc. Unless, of course, you are trying to make a statement or educate the local LEOs and libtards.
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