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Old 06-11-2013, 01:40 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by austin92 View Post
Ive been looking around with little luck for some good reading on how to respond to people when open carrying and they act scared or gawk at my firearm. I want to show them how it's a good thing. Id also like to be able to have a reasonable response to an officer harassing me about oc'ing. Basically, I never paid attentions in history class and don't know how to "respectfully" enforce my rights lol
On your first question, some folks can remain calm, pleasant, and poised, regardless of what is said to them or the manner in which they are approached. If your not ^^THIS^^ person, ignore the gawkers and just focus on smiling at everyone you make eye contact with.

It's common knowledge that none of us are going to change the minds of the hardcore anti's and having a gun on your hip will not change that equation. What will change minds is "allowing" a rabid anti to make a scene, loose their mind, and spew their hate, while you remain calm, smile, wave, and continue about your business.

On the LEO Side:
1. Know your State Laws
2. Know how case law impacts State Law
3. Carry cliff notes on the back of a business card so you don't forget everything when you get flustered... Or print out a copy of the laws and case law that effect OC to simply hand to the officer.

Above all else, never challenge the officers authority, whether he's right or wrong is not the point, he is the recognized authority and challenging that can be dangerous.

Whether your dealing with an irate citizen or an uneducated Cop, the goal is not "winning" an argument, the goal IS to be the one person who appears calm and "reasonable" to spectators, while excersizing your rights and NOT getting arrested.

There are hundreds of you tube videos showing both citizen and LEO OC encounters. Some OCers handle themselves marvelously and help the cause, many get flustered and come of looking like an idiot.

Id suggest watching these to see the difference between a POSSITIVE respectful advocate and a BELIGERANT ass hat with a gun... BUT... do NOT take your legal notes from these videos, you'll hear all kinds of legal lingo quoted by these OCer's but remember you may have no idea what State the encounter is occurring in.

Good Luck, know your laws, and stay calm.

I think you'll be surprised how few people even notice your gun... and of those who do... how few show any concern.

Tack
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:40 PM   #102
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Well put tack. I have found the last paragraph to be especially true.

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Old 06-11-2013, 05:44 PM   #103
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Like it or not everyday of our lives we represent gun owners, and everyday of our lives we have a responsibility and opportunity to effect change, we get the choice in how we affect others views of gun owners.
Well said. Some CEO called it "A moment of truth" - every time one of his employees met w the public. It could be a positive or negative experience and his company spent a lot of time, effort & energy training to ensure it was a positive outcome.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:31 PM   #104
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For the record... one of the best advocates I've seen to date.

http://youtu.be/pAlRDGUx-B8

Never uploaded a U tube link before so I hope this works.

Tack

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Old 06-11-2013, 07:48 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1
For the record... one of the best advocates I've seen to date.

http://youtu.be/pAlRDGUx-B8

Never uploaded a U tube link before so I hope this works.

Tack
Totally awesome video. Thanks.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:42 PM   #106
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Totally awesome video. Thanks.
Yep... I was very impressed with this young mans knowledge, calm demeanor, and particularly the way he remained RESPECTFUL in how he spoke to the officer.

...regardless of the officers repeated attempts to illegally I.D. a law abiding citizen.

This video gives some very "typical" examples of the verbal tactics Cops use to secure "voluntary" identification of a citizen... and the OC activist shows you how to continue to assert your rights and refuse compliance without winding up in handcuffs.

Officers know full well that they can not demand I.D. without reasonable suspicion of a crime and a 911 report of a "lawful activity" such as "open carry" is NOT reasonable suspicion... but it is perfectly legal for the officer to LIE to you and tell you otherwise in order to "get" you to voluntarily provide your I.D.

Intimidation, good cop/bad cop, and "hey buddy, help me out" will probably all be used before the encounter finally ends... just remember that the officer is really NOT interested in standing around and debating the issue, if refusing to I.D. was truly illegal... or he had anything he could charge you with without getting is arse in a sling... you'd already be in cuffs.

...so... know your local laws, know case law, remain polite regardless of how long it drags out, remain polite regardless of how the officers demeanor changes, stick to you "gun" ... and do not give up your I.D.

Tack
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:47 PM   #107
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Default Asshat with Gun

And now... and example of how NOT to do it...

http://youtu.be/M5TzoDTH_zM

This guy is obviously looking for his u tube moment, is disrespectful, belligerent, has a buddy filming... "who is also belligerent"... and is basically TRYING to make the officers look stupid.

He comes off as a complete ass hat, winds up in cuffs, and actually makes you feel sorry for the poor Cops dealing with him despite the fact that they are clearly violating his 4th Amendment rights... which he also screws up by first giving them his I.D. and then whining about his 2nd Amendment Rights.

NOTE: It's a 4th Amendment violation, "unreasonable search and seizure" with the presence of a gun as the "excuse".

Tack

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Old 06-11-2013, 09:06 PM   #108
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...and to end it on a good note:

This is Dave Ridley from New Hampshire showing how it's done.

http://youtu.be/5FWXnK5UyRI
Tack

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #109
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Great vids.... thanks!

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Old 06-12-2013, 12:53 PM   #110
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As a STRONG supporter of the RTKABA'S (2nd amendment) I support the open carry 'right'. As a person with 40+ years experience in military and police service I advise against open carry in public for tactical and safety reasons.

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