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Old 03-20-2014, 04:32 AM   #101
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Jim you are wasting your breath. A person has to do something besides shoot static targets at a range before their learning curve improves. OC is best for the range. The range is the end of their experience.

"Prove it" is the favorite phrase of someone who is losing a debate. They are praying like hell you won't spend an hour or so doing the research to prove it. If you do prove it they will say your sources are not credible.
There really isn't any winning or losing in this debate, just like there is no proving it. At the end of the day, different scenarios call for OC and CC. It all comes down to personal preference, and in that regard, everyone is right. There are pros and cons for both methods of carry. The best thing we can do is like Jim is doing, sharing his experiences. But when we share experiences, we need to be unbiased about it. If you are ONLY for CC and think OC is stupid, you're like that guy at the gun store who only wants to sell you a Glock, because Glocks are the best and no other gun is anywhere near that good. We all hate that guy (at least I do...), so let's try to avoid that. Say what you prefer and why you prefer it, but don't bash the other method. Just my thoughts on the subject

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Old 03-20-2014, 04:35 AM   #102
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Jim you are wasting your breath. A person has to do something besides shoot static targets at a range before their learning curve improves. OC is best for the range. The range is the end of their experience.

"Prove it" is the favorite phrase of someone who is losing a debate. They are praying like hell you won't spend an hour or so doing the research to prove it. If you do prove it they will say your sources are not credible.
when you are asked to provide a source or links to back up the statements you make, and fail to, it is you sir that lacks credibility. many, many times i have provided links and sources to show where your statements were false, incorrect or misleading in the past.

if i have nothing to factually support my statements and they are my opinions, i state them as such, that they are my opinions and beliefs, and i lack anything that supports them as being factual.

so don't go getting your feelings hurt simply because other people have proven you wrong many time in the past JD. maybe if you actually knew something about the things you post about, rather than making them up as you go, might be different.

so if you can't or won't do a little research into what you post, don't get all butthurt when people dismiss your posts as foolishness. and it would be foolish of me and others to simply take what you post on a forum as the gospel, without asking for something to support what you have to say. i'm sorry JD, but my father didn't raise any fools.
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Old 03-20-2014, 06:12 AM   #103
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Jim you are wasting your breath. A person has to do something besides shoot static targets at a range before their learning curve improves. OC is best for the range. The range is the end of their experience.

"Prove it" is the favorite phrase of someone who is losing a debate. They are praying like hell you won't spend an hour or so doing the research to prove it. If you do prove it they will say your sources are not credible.
I don't think Jim is wasting his breath. You on the other hand are definitely wasting yours. You have no idea what any of us have as a background of experience. Making blanket statements like that, really shows your ignorance. None of us ever said that OC was better than CC. We are just stating the fact that we ought to be able to choose. I don't understand why having the freedom to choose how you want to carry upsets you so much. Why is it you can't understand the words "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"?
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:41 AM   #104
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Open carry doesn't upset me. What does upset me is people like yourself who are willing to jeopardize my right to open carry when it is a necessity. If you open carry all the time there is no getting around open carrying in situations where it is not appropriate. Scaring old ladies at Walmart so you can feel like Billy Bad ass is not a right, it is stupidity.

You really haven't read or at least comprehended what I've written have you? Why do you care if someone jeopardizes your right to open carry? You are to afraid to use it anyway. I'm way to old to be playing at Billy Bad Ass and you are way to stupid to understand this conversation. I'll say it one more time for the really slow. It doesn't matter how you or I feel or what you or I think about OC, it's your right and it's legal and that should be the end of it.

I defy you to look thru this thread and show me where I said it was appropriate to OC all the time. Read the subject line of this thread. It clearly says OPEN CARRY LAWS, it doesn't say OPEN CARRY OPINIONS.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:03 PM   #105
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Open carry doesn't upset me. What does upset me is people like yourself who are willing to jeopardize my right to open carry when it is a necessity. If you open carry all the time there is no getting around open carrying in situations where it is not appropriate. Scaring old ladies at Walmart so you can feel like Billy Bad ass is not a right, it is stupidity.
Open carry is open carry. Either it's legal or it's not. You can't not exercise a right because it might scare some old lady... It shouldn't matter if it scares people as long as you have the law on your side. And it could even serve as a way to start informing people about gun rights. But it sounds like you're very closed minded about this subject.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:34 PM   #106
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Here you guys go. A guy open carrying gets robbed of his gun. This is on a forum with a link attached. I guess it does happen.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?53000-Man-open-carrying-gets-robbed-of-his-gun
Sorry but the link seems to be outdated as it looks like it was maybe posted on a county site

Never enough guns or ammo
I posted a couple links like that in another thread. Don't expect an overwhelming response. Now that you've shown it can and does happen it will be seen as an anomaly, therefore insignificant.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:45 PM   #107
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I posted a couple links like that in another thread. Don't expect an overwhelming response. Now that you've shown it can and does happen it will be seen as an anomaly, therefore insignificant.
Isn't it also common sense that OC could deter a crime? There's no real way to prove it, but think about it. A guy walks into 7-11 wanting to get the $200 in the till. He doesn't want to hurt anyone, he just needs the money. He's not going to shoot a guy that is OC, he's just gonna walk out and go to the Shell station down the street. But of course, you're probably going to say that it's stupid to even take the chance and there's going to be that one BG who walks in and just starts eliminating any and all threats... if you go on youtube and start watching videos of citizens using their guns to protect themselves, they almost all have one thing in common. Once a citizen pulls out their gun the bad guys run away. They don't stay to shoot everyone, they get the hell out.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:08 PM   #108
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I posted a couple links like that in another thread. Don't expect an overwhelming response. Now that you've shown it can and does happen it will be seen as an anomaly, therefore insignificant.
I posted a link to a story about a man carrying concealed whose gun was taken from him too. JJ's response to that was it wasn't the bad guys intent to take the gun. I'm sure that is a great comfort to the guy who got his gun stolen. Bad things can and do happen, we all have to deal with it the way we think is best. The only other choice is to live your life in fear. Truth be told we are in far more danger driving to get our permits than we will ever be from bad guys.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:09 PM   #109
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Ok now go down to the court house and give them 50 bucks for the right to say that. As is pointed out so many times driving is not a right, it's a privilege. The taxation of food on the other hand is absolutely wrong and should be abolished. Your right under 2A is to keep/own and bear/carry arms. The word in the middle is AND not OR. So therefore they are taxing you for your right to carry. The government calling a tax by any other name like permit, levy or license doesn't change the fact that they are all taxes.
Okay. We'll agree on the tax, fee, levy point, but if you don't mind, let me ask you a question. We have laws on the books concerning who can and can't own or carry a firearm. Would you abolish those laws? Had Ted Bundy survived would you want him legally able to own firearms? How about the Beltway Sniper up around DC? Charles Manson?

Don't quit on me yet. I think we would both agree that these people should not be allowed access to firearms. Neither should the punk that does a home invasion robbery. So who administers and enforces the laws that would keep these people from buying a firearm? Who decides whether or not they are allowed to carry? Who arrests them when they decide to ignore the law? How do we pay for it?

I'm guessing that you have never worked as a civilian employee of a government. Let me explain how budgeting works. When a need is discovered you have to find two things. You have to find a fix for the need and you have to find a way to pay for that fix.

Since I think we both agree that only those of good moral character should be allowed to carry, who sorts them out and who enforces it? Who pays for the background check? Who pays to maintain the database? Who pays for the people to enter the data? How about the building that houses the computers that contain the database. Should I mention the electricity and the bandwidth?

Those are all easy ones. The people that created the need should pay. Do you see people that don't drive paying fuel taxes? Why should people that don't carry pay permit taxes?
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:17 PM   #110
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Isn't it also common sense that OC could deter a crime? There's no real way to prove it, but think about it. A guy walks into 7-11 wanting to get the $200 in the till. He doesn't want to hurt anyone, he just needs the money. He's not going to shoot a guy that is OC, he's just gonna walk out and go to the Shell station down the street. But of course, you're probably going to say that it's stupid to even take the chance and there's going to be that one BG who walks in and just starts eliminating any and all threats... if you go on youtube and start watching videos of citizens using their guns to protect themselves, they almost all have one thing in common. Once a citizen pulls out their gun the bad guys run away. They don't stay to shoot everyone, they get the hell out.
No, I wasn't going to say that. You shouldn't assume. You know what they say about that.

Anyway, since you seem to know what I am going to say, there's no sense in me butting in. I'll let you keep up both ends of the conversation. Have a magical day
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