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Old 03-20-2014, 01:31 AM   #91
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No problem Jim, I respect your experience as an LEO and appreciate your input but occasionally Gentlemen disagree and that's ok.

In my 2 decades of CC I've had exactly 2 fights avoided by displaying my CCW. One was 3 punks in Tacoma WA at 1 am who "thought" they'd found and easy mark. Brushing back my jacket and gripping (but not drawing) my 1911 was enough to convince them that discretion was the better part of valor.

The other was a road raging Jack Ass on I5 in Seattle. Placing that same 1911 on the dashboard "this was prior to everyone having a cell phone" was enough to send him on down the Interstate and end the danger he was putting my Familly in.

We agree that we are all shaped by our experiences and in my experience CC did nothing to dissuade aggression... Only displaying the weapon resolved the situations peacefully.

Unlike those of you in Law Enforcement, My only obligation is to get home in 1 piece, preferably without getting jumped or needing to shoot anyone.

I embrace OC because for these reasons... Because I believe it dissuades aggression and Id rather be the guy the thug passes on than the CC guy he mistakes for any easy mark.

Tack

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Proof is in the putting!!!
I was not being rude, just honest. I do not believe in PC as all it does is interfere with honest communication. I don't have to 'prove' a thing. I have been 'doing' and 'training' for 5+ decades when it comes to armed self-defense and some things are just common sense to those of us who have the experience and use the wisdom we have accrued. We have made our mistakes, not to mention all the mistakes we have witnessed others make.
If you don't wish to agree with me I really don't care. You are free to learn from your mistakes as the rest of us have. All I was saying is 'I have been there, done that and/or saw that, and have the scars to prove it' and was trying to keep you and others from making the same mistakes many have made. I hope you are one of those who survive those mistakes.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:32 AM   #92
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And yet you have no proof that ever happens. It is merely your opinion. I noticed all you guys on your side of the debate have neglected to argue the point of "shall not be infringed".
You are not listening (reading)!!! If you had read my previous posts you would know I SUPPORT 100% the right to carry, open or concealed and expound in length about "shall not infringe".
I guess you can call it an 'opinion' if you want. But it is based on 'wisdom' gained from 50+ years of training, experience, investigation, and observation.
Thus I consider it common sense.
Like I said, do as you please, and if you don't think you draw attention to yourself when you OC by EVERYONE, good and bad, you must live in another universe!!!
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:39 AM   #93
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OC vs CC is a gamble, either Mr. BG robbing the gas station will see you and feel so threatened by you that he ceases the robbery and runs away from you, or he will be SO threatened by you that he shoots you to get the biggest threat out of the way right away.
Mr. BG is not interested in getting shot or facing a life sentence over the content of the gas station register.

Were this not true... We would not be able to point to marked reductions in confrontational crimes is states that have "shall issue" and "stand your ground" laws.

Armed robbers don't use guns because they want to fire them... They use them as a threat to get what they want without a fight.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:41 AM   #94
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No problem Jim, I respect your experience as an LEO and appreciate your input but occasionally Gentlemen disagree and that's ok.

In my 2 decades of CC I've had exactly 2 fights avoided by displaying my CCW. One was 3 punks in Tacoma WA at 1 am who "thought" they'd found and easy mark. Brushing back my jacket and gripping (but not drawing) my 1911 was enough to convince them that discretion was the better part of valor.

The other was a road raging Jack Ass on I5 in Seattle. Placing that same 1911 on the dashboard "this was prior to everyone having a cell phone" was enough to send him on down the Interstate and end the danger he was putting my Familly in.

We agree that we are all shaped by our experiences and in my experience CC did nothing to dissuade aggression... Only displaying the weapon resolved the situations peacefully.

Unlike those of you in Law Enforcement, My only obligation is to get home in 1 piece, preferably without getting jumped or needing to shoot anyone.

I embrace OC because for these reasons... Because I believe it dissuades aggression and Id rather be the guy the thug passes on than the CC guy he mistakes for any easy mark.

Tack
Tack,
You must live in a very tranquil place like I do NOW. But before I left the PD we were given intell that some gangs were using the disarming of LEO's and SO's in uniform as part of their initiation! So just think how inviting it would be to do the same to an OC civilian!!! Even in uniform we had to be VERY alert when we were in a crowd or just in close proximity of people because we were OC. I still am conscious of my weapon when I CC, but I know I am much less apt to be targeted if 'they' don't know I am caring a gun. But like I said, the more who OC the safer I am!!!
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:49 AM   #95
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Tack,
You must live in a very tranquil place like I do NOW. But before I left the PD we were given intell that some gangs were using the disarming of LEO's and SO's as part of their initiation! So just think how inviting it would be to do the same to a civilian!!! Even in uniform we had to be VERY alert when we were in a crowd or just in close proximity of people because we were OC. I still am conscious of my weapon when I CC, but I know I am much less apt to be targeted if 'they' don't know I am caring a gun. But like I said, the more who OC the safer I am!!!
Your correct... I do live in a very safe place and CC 99% of the time because professionals can't really stroll around the office with an OC 1911...

...but... My job often takes me into bad neighborhoods and given my past experiences, if threatened, I'd remove the cover garment sooner to dissuade a fight before it was too late.

Tack
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:54 AM   #96
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You are not listening (reading)!!! If you had read my previous posts you would know I SUPPORT 100% the right to carry, open or concealed and expound in length about "shall not infringe".
I guess you can call it an 'opinion' if you want. But it is based on 'wisdom' gained from 50+ years of training, experience, investigation, and observation.
Thus I consider it common sense.
Like I said, do as you please, and if you don't think you draw attention to you when you OC, by EVERYONE, good and bad you must live in another universe!!!
Jim how many times have I pushed the like button on your post's? Quite a few. I know where you stand. But we just can't go around telling people how to live their lives no matter how much we disagree with it. I rarely carry in the open and I never carry a long gun around town but if someone else does, it's ok with me. I just don't like anyone or the government infringing on peoples rights.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:58 AM   #97
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Your correct... I do live in a very safe place and CC 99% of the time because professionals can't really stroll around the office with an OC 1911...

...but... My job often takes me into bad neighborhoods and given my past experiences, if threatened, I'd remove the cover garment sooner to dissuade a fight before it was too late.

Tack
'Informing' a potential attacker that you are 'armed and will defend yourself' when the time and circumstances permit and it is safe to do so by 'uncovering and griping' your PPD to deter him/them is what I teach. But this is not the same a OC.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:05 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by rjd3282 View Post
Jim how many times have I pushed the like button on your post's? Quite a few. I know where you stand. But we just can't go around telling people how to live their lives no matter how much we disagree with it. I rarely carry in the open and I never carry a long gun around town but if someone else does, it's ok with me. I just don't like anyone or the government infringing on peoples rights.
I am not 'telling' people how to live their lives. What I hope I am doing is giving them the benefits of my experience, knowledge, and training. Much of this I have learned from 'mistakes', both mine and other peoples, in hopes they will make the decisions which will help them survive if they find the need to defend themselves, their homes, their families, or any others they decide to help. This is strictly 'advise', nothing more. People are free to consider it or not.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:36 AM   #99
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Yeah but he wasn't targeted for his handgun like the other guy. The BG just happen to stumble across the gun while searching the guy for whatever. The key to both of these attacks is awareness though. I'm way too paranoid for either of these incidents to likely happen to me. I think we can agree with these incidents being almost the gun carriers fault his gun was taken. Guns getting taken off persons is going to happen, that's just life and it happens. I think that's part of the reason for the serpa type holsters and magazine disconnect safety features among others


Never enough guns or ammo
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:25 AM   #100
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I am not 'telling' people how to live their lives. What I hope I am doing is giving them the benefits of my experience, knowledge, and training. Much of this I have learned from 'mistakes', both mine and other peoples, in hopes they will make the decisions which will help them survive if they find the need to defend themselves, their homes, their families, or any others they decide to help. This is strictly 'advise', nothing more. People are free to consider it or not.
Jim you are wasting your breath. A person has to do something besides shoot static targets at a range before their learning curve improves. OC is best for the range. The range is the end of their experience.

"Prove it" is the favorite phrase of someone who is losing a debate. They are praying like hell you won't spend an hour or so doing the research to prove it. If you do prove it they will say your sources are not credible.
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