Open Carry incident in Philadelphia, PA - Page 3
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:50 AM   #21
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rjd, I don't think most of us in this forum are scared of hurting anybody's feelings. Quite the opposite.

People trying to push a point are concentrating on pushing the point and they deliberately draw attention to themselves instead of their point. They also mark themselves as potential targets and in many cases their situational awareness is down to zero because they're showing off. I want to be the gray man. I want to carry and not have people be aware of it. I do it everyday now and have done so for about 40 years without anybody ever detecting my guns on me. I like that. I want to use surprise to my tactical advantage when I need to do something. I want Johnny Dirtbag to feel my presence from afar before he sees me coming because, if I have to act, he won't have anything coming from me except lead.

I've fought long and hard for my nation, not for stupid people to act out in public. Being an old paratrooper, I tend to have some really rebellious ideas in me and I've been known to be in trouble for doing things but acting up in public isn't one of them. At least not yet. Dancing at a sacred memorial, drinking drunk and throwing up at a military shrine and so on are NOT rights. Those are disrespectful actions some people want to claim those actions as rights. This guy carrying a gun in the open was neither a smart move nor a right. It shows ignorance on his part. It shows a lack of common sense. Guys like this one may push the legality of an issue but it sure doesn't help those of us who work behind the scenes trying to get the rights of gun owners better understood or advanced.

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Old 06-01-2011, 03:15 AM   #22
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I'm sorry Recon but carrying a gun wether open or concealed is a right. If you think it isn't then you are part of the problem. Just because you don't want to carry in the open doesn't mean someone else can't. That's the way the libs think. They don't like something therefore no one else can do it either.

I don't understand where the reference of drunk driving relates to this topic I don't recall anyone saying that it was a right. I certainly didn't mention it. But carrying a weapon is most definitely a right.

2A says the right to keep and bear arms, it doesn't say anything about keeping them under our clothes. This topic isn't about tactics which by the way I agree with you. It's about our rights.

The anti gun people already dictate to many things to us ie. mag limits, waiting periods and what type of weapons we can own etc. When will it be time for us to say enough is enough?

I certainly mean no disrespect to you or anyone else Recon but we really need to open our eyes. By the way thank you for your service I to am a veteran I understand completely your sacrifice.

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Old 06-01-2011, 09:42 AM   #23
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I agree with you to a certain point about us needing to keep our 2A rights secure. But keep in mind that our founding fathers wanted us to have our 2A rights but they also allowed that local governments could put some restrictions on our rights for the good of other people. The main reason that they did that was so that people could live in safety. And they understood that there might be a time when limitations were needed. They didn't like it but they allowed for it. Trouble is that the anti-gun crowd keep pushing their points too just like this guy did with open carry.

Go back through the local newspaper articles from many years ago. Back in the day of black powder firearms, it was not unusual for those pieces to cause fires that could burn down woodlands, prairies, buildings and so on when there were periods of extreme drought. In those days, notices were sometimes issued to be careful about shooting your firearms or use of firearms were denied, except under extreme emergencies like Indian attacks and such, to keep accidental fires from happening. Later on, because a number of people were accidentally shot by drunken cowboys partying too hard, some cities like Tombstone, Dodge City and so on banned the carrying of firearms inside their corporate limits. So some of our anti-gun problems have been actually brought on against us by other people who recklessly used firearms a number of times. This guy, trying to prove his point, is as bad as any rabid anti-gunner that I have ever met. Radicals at both ends will be our undoing.

In some states open carry is legal which is fine and I like that idea. BUT the problem remains that even inside of those states there may be localities that don't want open carry for one reason or another and that it their right to deny open carry. We, as responsible people, have a need to know what is right and what is illegal where we live, work and travel. Sure, we can't know 100% of the time what all the local laws are but we can use common sense like many of our founding fathers wanted us to do. And pushing points does not help us further our rights to own and use firearms. Instead of helping us legal and cautious gun owners, this man put the onus on all of us with his conduct. The onus, where firearms are concerned, should be placed firmly against those that would deny you and me our rights to own guns and against criminals who illegally use guns. He drew unwanted, unneeded and undesired attention to all firearms owners. He made us look bad by pushing a point his way.

I will tell you right now that I have zero intention of ever giving up my 2A rights. I will fight tooth and nail to deny the anti-gunners their ability to take away your and my firearms. But to defeat these anti-gun people we need to intelligently fight them at every turn. We need to be able to ridicule them and make their arguments seem without merit. This guy pushing his point does the opposite and makes us look bad instead.

By the way, nice to meet another veteran. Welcome home.

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Old 06-01-2011, 09:58 AM   #24
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Thanks for the response Recon. I don't agree with everything you said but this is the way a debate is supposed to be carried on. No name calling. I appreciate your thoughtful response. One thing for you to consider is the part of 2A that says this right "shall not be infringed".

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Old 06-01-2011, 02:27 PM   #25
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Open carry is legal here in Michigan with out a CPL. I might not agree with or care to see somebody carrying openly, I personally think it causes attention to yourself and what your doing. Everybody is looking at you good and bad people, Some old lady panic’s picks up a phone and calls 911 and the police respond. All that does is make the problems bigger you have a Police officer going into a situation where a gun is involved, not knowing if it is a bg with a gun or Joe schmoe. Trigger fingers get itchy. Now if that guy had simply got a cpl or if he already had one and simply covered that gun up he would never have gotten the Police called on him because nobody would have seen that weapon.

I want everybody to be able to carry a firearm if they choose. If they want to carry concealed or open its up to them, but you have to take the consequences with carrying openly and that is unwanted attention from bg’s, law abiding, and police.

Do I think that the situation in PA could have been handled differently? You bet your sweet butt kiss it could of. The Police officer could have been up on the laws, when told by the idiot he had a cpl then the officer could of come down a notch on the tough guy meter. No I wouldn’t of automatically believed the guy but I would of looked into it. The idiot could of just followed instructions and yes he would have been inconvenienced for a little bit but it defiantly would not have gone as far as it is now.

What do I know im just some guy in a city that is full butt holes that act like these two did. Is carrying in the open legal? Yes. Is carrying a gun apart of our rights? Yes. Is it smart to carry a Gun openly? I say No. That is just my humble opinion.

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