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Open carry another state legal or no?


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Old 03-27-2017, 12:16 AM   #1
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Default Open carry another state legal or no?

Ok so I got into an argument with a friend that is "moving" to Kentucky to work on a ranch as a hunting guide. I put it in quotes becomes his legal address will remain in NY.

So what he is saying is since he doesn't need a permit in KY to open carry that he can buy a gun from a friend in the state of KY and carry it all he wants. I told him if he does that he and his friend are in trouble for violating the federal law of purchasing a pistol outside of ones residence. And since he does not have a nys permit (which is needed to buy a pistol) that if he gets pulled over are questioned by local police, that they will want to know how he now owns the pistol thus leading to more trouble.

What y'all think about this?
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:19 AM   #2
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Federal offense.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:28 AM   #3
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Open carry is the secondary issue. Federal law- specifically Title 18, section 922 provides that unless you hold a FFL, you cannot acquire a handgun other than in your state of residence.

There are several ways to establish a residence. Yes, there are people that have more than one residence.

Your friend is headed in a direction that CAN result in the loss of his ability to ever legally own any firearm. If he is going to be an expert on gun law, he's got some catching up to do.

Among other things, does he have a clue where the places are that he CANNOT legally carry- open or otherwise. Oh- and he is going to be a "hunting guide". Can I just mention that Kentucky has resident and non-resident HUNTING LICENSES ? And that if he is present, aiding and abetting a hunt, he better be licensed?

Fairly confident that Kentucky Game Commission has some Conservation Officers that can explain that to him- while they are writing out the summons.
This is not going to end well- but I will go get a beer and some popcorn while I watch.....
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:11 AM   #4
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from my understanding of federal gun laws, i have to agree, he can't legally purchase a handgun without a legal residence in that state.

he may even be violating state laws as well.

your friend may be headed for some expensive learning lessons, that could be life lasting, in regards to his gun rights in any state in the future.

also remind him that ignorance of the law isn't a viable excuse either. he might go ahead and discuss his intentions with a lawyer to find out his limits legally, and retain that lawyer if he decides to ignore his advice!
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:31 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Open carry is the secondary issue. Federal law- specifically Title 18, section 922 provides that unless you hold a FFL, you cannot acquire a handgun other than in your state of residence.

There are several ways to establish a residence. Yes, there are people that have more than one residence.

Your friend is headed in a direction that CAN result in the loss of his ability to ever legally own any firearm. If he is going to be an expert on gun law, he's got some catching up to do.

Among other things, does he have a clue where the places are that he CANNOT legally carry- open or otherwise. Oh- and he is going to be a "hunting guide". Can I just mention that Kentucky has resident and non-resident HUNTING LICENSES ? And that if he is present, aiding and abetting a hunt, he better be licensed?

Fairly confident that Kentucky Game Commission has some Conservation Officers that can explain that to him- while they are writing out the summons.
This is not going to end well- but I will go get a beer and some popcorn while I watch.....
I believe C3 is correct but there exceptions for multiple state residency. Active duty military is one example.

I maintained Oregon residency throughout my service so I could skip sales tax wherever I happened to be stationed but I also legally purchased my first handgun from a Tacoma WA FFL while stationed at Ft. Lewis.

Your friend should check out Kentucky guidelines on State Residency requirements. I suspect he would need both a KY drivers license and address to fulfil his wish legally.
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:49 AM   #6
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Couve- I held THREE states at same time- Home of Record- Virginia. Assigned duty post- Ft. Benning, GA. My apartment- Phenix City AL.

The key element- I could PROVE those. Virginia voter and driver's license, Ft. Benning PCS orders, lease for apartment and utility bills.
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:55 AM   #7
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Couve- I held THREE states at same time- Home of Record- Virginia. Assigned duty post- Ft. Benning, GA. My apartment- Phenix City AL.

The key element- I could PROVE those. Virginia voter and driver's license, Ft. Benning PCS orders, lease for apartment and utility bills.
i don't think the OP's friend is that blessed!

meh, i think the guy thinks going to a state with less restrictive gun laws, is an invitation to buy a gun. i think, if he continues down the path he's headed, he's going to find out just how wrong he is.

i sure hope the OP can talk some sense into him.
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Old 03-27-2017, 10:24 AM   #8
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Ha see the funny thing is I tried to and he won't listen. I told him flat out about the federal offense. He replies "how would they know where I got the gun from anyways."

Now he thinks he's never going to run into a cop that sees his gun and will run his name and the whole nine yards. Once the cop sees he doesn't have a KY residence and no NY permit that would of got him the gun in the first place they will start asking more questions. Y'all think if he got stopped the cop would notice right away ny tag truck ny license OC pistol they would know he shouldn't of been able to buy it?

Now is that legal to borrow a friends gun while in the state? Since it wasn't a sale or permanent transfer?

I've used to carry my dads pistol in Florida with a non resident permit all the time since he didn't sell me anything. I always believed this to be ok.

And this would be amplified if he actually used the gun in self defense, where then the truth comes out everywhere. Besides we all know how people like to call cops on open carriers all the time.

Didn't know the info about the hunting laws. He went on a trip to an outfitter there and they offered him a job at the end of it. Still seems a bit sketchy to me.

He's actually a cousin on my sisters in laws side and I've never really liked him (cocky I know everything you know nothing attitude with no respect for your own opinions) so honestly I'll be opening up the popcorn too and waiting to hear he has a little incident with the law too!
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by hockeyjr1 View Post
Ha see the funny thing is I tried to and he won't listen. I told him flat out about the federal offense. He replies "how would they know where I got the gun from anyways."

Now he thinks he's never going to run into a cop that sees his gun and will run his name and the whole nine yards. Once the cop sees he doesn't have a KY residence and no NY permit that would of got him the gun in the first place they will start asking more questions. Y'all think if he got stopped the cop would notice right away ny tag truck ny license OC pistol they would know he shouldn't of been able to buy it?

Now is that legal to borrow a friends gun while in the state? Since it wasn't a sale or permanent transfer?

I've used to carry my dads pistol in Florida with a non resident permit all the time since he didn't sell me anything. I always believed this to be ok.

And this would be amplified if he actually used the gun in self defense, where then the truth comes out everywhere. Besides we all know how people like to call cops on open carriers all the time.

Didn't know the info about the hunting laws. He went on a trip to an outfitter there and they offered him a job at the end of it. Still seems a bit sketchy to me.

He's actually a cousin on my sisters in laws side and I've never really liked him (cocky I know everything you know nothing attitude with no respect for your own opinions) so honestly I'll be opening up the popcorn too and waiting to hear he has a little incident with the law too!
If he will not listen to you, I'm pretty sure he will not take any advice from members of this forum.

Maybe he might listen to the ATF, doubtful, but maybe.

Here is a link to the ATF FAQ section.

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons#gca-unlicensed-acquire

Here are a few FAQ's that maybe he would be interested in, or not.

https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/may-unlicensed-person-acquire-firearm-under-gca-any-state

May an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA in any State?

Generally, a person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State. Exceptions include the acquisition pursuant to a lawful bequest, or an over–the–counter acquisition of a rifle or shotgun from a licensee where the transaction is allowed by the purchaser’s State of residence and the licensee’s State of business. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3); 27 CFR 478.29]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/whom-may-unlicensed-person-transfer-firearms-under-gca

To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may transfer a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her State, provided the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. There may be State laws that regulate intrastate firearm transactions. A person considering transferring a firearm should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions.

Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) within the transferee’s State of residence. The transferee may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check.

A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he or she or she does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent.

A person may transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C 922(a)(5) and 922(d); 27 CFR 478.30, 478.32]
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:26 PM   #10
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Then again, with the "who's going to know" attitude, I suspect he already knows he is wrong, but refuses to admit it and is now just trying to justify his stupidity.

Might want to give the friend that is going to sell him this handgun a heads up. He too will be in violation of federal laws and he too will lose his RTKBA if this tuff talking moron gets caught.
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