Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection > Ok so your carrying your fav

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-01-2011, 03:28 AM   #11
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 16,919
Liked 5109 Times on 2658 Posts
Likes Given: 310

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phildenton View Post
pepper spray can be deadly to a person with asthma, so lets say you have asthma and a bg approaches and pulls out mace, even if they havent sprayed yet, being afraid for your life, would you be justified in pulling your gun and firing?
its not just fear of death. most state ccw self defense includes thing like great bodily harm robbery kidnapping etc. unless your a psychic, how do you know the goblin doesnt just want you incapped so he can mutilate you or take a body part as a trophy or rape you??
__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...

JonM is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 03:36 AM   #12
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
UrbanNinja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Philadelphia,Pennsylvania
Posts: 934
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Say the BG does have pepper spray in a small dark cylindrical shape container in his hand dropped to his side. All that is visual to you is a black cylinder.

As he begins to raise his arm, you have less then a second to decide whether this object is in fact pepper spray or possibly a small derrenger size pistol or for that matter a "zip gun"?

Now the voice is...your life or his?

You have no idea what he is holding.. do you dare take that chance?

__________________

Si vis pacem, Para Bellum.
"If you want peace, Prepare for war"

UrbanNinja is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 03:49 AM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MrWray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,371
Liked 998 Times on 597 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanNinja
Say the BG does have pepper spray in a small dark cylindrical shape container in his hand dropped to his side. All that is visual to you is a black cylinder.

As he begins to raise his arm, you have less then a second to decide whether this object is in fact pepper spray or possibly a small derrenger size pistol or for that matter a "zip gun"?

Now the voice is...your life or his?

You have no idea what he is holding.. do you dare take that chance?
In this instance i would go hands on and attempt to disarm the individual, because again... If you shoot the guy and its just pepper spray you have months and months of articulating your story to a judge and jury.. You are exactly right though, you have no clue what he has in his hand and i know from years of experience that s*** happens very quick and your left with fractions of a second to make your decision. I cant say what everyone would do, i just know what i would do. It is something to think about
__________________

Semper paratus.....virtute et armis

MrWray is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 01:02 PM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BenLuby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Douglasville,Georgia
Posts: 2,169
Liked 47 Times on 34 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWray View Post
In this instance i would go hands on and attempt to disarm the individual, because again... If you shoot the guy and its just pepper spray you have months and months of articulating your story to a judge and jury.. You are exactly right though, you have no clue what he has in his hand and i know from years of experience that s*** happens very quick and your left with fractions of a second to make your decision. I cant say what everyone would do, i just know what i would do. It is something to think about
I'll agree with that, and add that another issue to consider would be the size difference and your level of training.
Those with LEO training are going to be held to a higher standard, as are those who the perp is smaller than.
Backpedaling (always be aware of your surroundings and avoid a 'dead end' behind you if at all possible) is always an option, as pepper spray is not fun.
Less than one second to make a decision isn't much time.
But with the CCW comes a lot of responsibility.
__________________
BenLuby is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 01:19 PM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Molon Labe,Missouri
Posts: 494
Liked 68 Times on 56 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Very interesting senerios and possibilities with good strong words from a LEO. However, here in Missouri, we have the Castle Law that states--"A person doesn't have to back down from a situation". ALL ITEMS used for a crime can be considered a deadly situation, and all a person needs to tell themselves "Am I in a Deadly Situation and FEARED FOR MY LIFE. It's NOT whether that situation is deadly to another person---only to that person involved. Even a person who has trained with Karate/Judo or other means of self defense and it is used to commit a crime, can be considered a dangerous object and if you considered yourself to be in a "fear for my life" situation---deadly force can be used. So if I'm getting the crap beat out of me for no reason by one person or a gang(I'm over 55yrs old), I will take that as being in a fear for my life. Another situation, is even if a Perp is robbing you, but they're in your barn/shed, all detatched structures in Missouri(at least in my part of Missouri) can be dealt, with deadly force, as if that person was breaking into your home. However most BG's know this, with all the farms, and don't mess with farmers, who probably have some of the largest arsonals available within arms reach at all times.
Del

__________________
Triumphman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 01:28 PM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
NOVA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Reston,VA
Posts: 203
Liked 10 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Castle Law ought to be the law in every state in the Union , IMO. I think that's what our founding fathers intended.

__________________
I love Life - I try to learn something new everyday! I am thankful for a brain that still functions, a wife who still loves me and my gun collection to defend me!
NOVA is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 01:53 PM   #17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
32tudor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Battleground,Washington
Posts: 37
Default > Ok so your carrying your fav

So what it all boils down to is if your former law enforcement you get a pass and if your Joe public ,you get screwed. Sad state of affairs we are in .

I take ccw very serious and I would de-escalate if possible turn and leave in favor of standing my ground cause we know how that's going to turn out ,

And I don't see this society getting any better till the economy turns around, things are going to continue to go down hill .

__________________

Happiness is a Belt Fed Weapon

32tudor is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 02:19 PM   #18
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Overkill0084's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Weber County, Utah
Posts: 4,078
Liked 2530 Times on 1268 Posts
Likes Given: 239

Default

Wouldn't some random person trying to spray you with pepper spray be considered assault in most places? If it's happening to me, I'm going to assume that they don't have my best interests at heart.

__________________
Cheers,
Greg
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman
Overkill0084 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 03:27 PM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MrWray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,371
Liked 998 Times on 597 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overkill0084
Wouldn't some random person trying to spray you with pepper spray be considered assault in most places? If it's happening to me, I'm going to assume that they don't have my best interests at heart.
Absolutely, it is cosidered assault, your just not justified in using deadly force...unless there are other factors that dictate that the BG is hell bent on ending your existance and the pepper spray is just being used to incapacitate you to make it easier for him.
__________________

Semper paratus.....virtute et armis

MrWray is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 03:30 PM   #20
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MrWray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,371
Liked 998 Times on 597 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32tudor
So what it all boils down to is if your former law enforcement you get a pass and if your Joe public ,you get screwed. Sad state of affairs we are in .

I take ccw very serious and I would de-escalate if possible turn and leave in favor of standing my ground cause we know how that's going to turn out ,

And I don't see this society getting any better till the economy turns around, things are going to continue to go down hill .
I wouldnt say that a former LEO would get a pass, homicide is homicide.. Its either justified or its not..
__________________

Semper paratus.....virtute et armis

MrWray is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
That's it. I'm carrying at work now ! yesicarry Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 66 11-10-2011 04:06 PM
Carrying in Bars? LegatoRedrivers Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 116 10-18-2011 04:11 PM
Concealed Carrying an FNP-45 gruntmarine1775 Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 3 09-25-2011 08:34 AM
Carrying While Running USMC-03 Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 19 01-05-2011 02:07 AM
Are you carrying, Mr. Smith? Last Crow Legal and Activism 8 04-08-2010 02:04 PM