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-   -   Murder Or Self-Defense? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/murder-self-defense-46452/)

PanBaccha 08-08-2011 08:11 PM

Murder Or Self-Defense?
 
You are the jury on this one.
Watch carefully and decide.
Murder or self-defense?
:confused:


http://youtu.be/NoALOGnl76A

knfxda 08-08-2011 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanBaccha (Post 558368)
You are the jury on this one.
Watch carefully and decide.
Murder or self-defense?
:confused:


‪Murder or Self Defense, You decide‬‏ - YouTube

Self defense. I mean, come on, the guy was driving to the Police Department to get away from this guy. He felt his life was in danger. It's hardly like the guy's plan was to murder him in front of the PD.

Not to get too side tracked, but can someone explain to me why the cops feel the need to handle somone that way who is clearly giving himself up?

JonM 08-08-2011 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knfxda (Post 558421)
Self defense. I mean, come on, the guy was driving to the Police Department to get away from this guy. He felt his life was in danger. It's hardly like the guy's plan was to murder him in front of the PD.

Not to get too side tracked, but can someone explain to me why the cops feel the need to handle somone that way who is clearly giving himself up?

i agree self defense.

no sound but i imagine he said he just shot someone or something to that effect i dont think they reacted badly at all. they had an unknown individual as an active shooter with no real info. they didnt abuse him just cuffed him really fast.

knfxda 08-08-2011 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 558483)
they didnt abuse him just cuffed him really fast.

Look at the knee on the neck and then look at how the cop picks the guy up by the cuffs bringing his hands above his head from behind. If that were me, I'd have 2 separated shoulders or at least or torn labrum or two. (Labrum - it's in the shoulder ;) )

OK. Watched again. Knee really wasn't on the neck, buy the non-cuffing officer was really aggressive with that arm. The officer that picks him up was an ass, in my opinion. You need to place yourself in the role of the guy getting cuffed and then look at the video.

gaeilgeoir 08-08-2011 11:41 PM

Depends on what was said but yes i believe it was, although i it were me personally i probably would have only hurt him, like tried to stop him non-lethally, but if circumstances prevented that......

Rarity 08-09-2011 12:18 AM

Self-defense, even though it happened right in front of a police station.

JonM 08-09-2011 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knfxda (Post 558495)
Look at the knee on the neck and then look at how the cop picks the guy up by the cuffs bringing his hands above his head from behind. If that were me, I'd have 2 separated shoulders or at least or torn labrum or two. (Labrum - it's in the shoulder ;) )

OK. Watched again. Knee really wasn't on the neck, buy the non-cuffing officer was really aggressive with that arm. The officer that picks him up was an ass, in my opinion. You need to place yourself in the role of the guy getting cuffed and then look at the video.

ive cuffed folks in real life occasionally at gunpoint sometimes without resistance sometimes havine to put em in prone and knee in the back. only once did i have to apply pressure to subdue a last minute struggle. knee in the back is common practice pressure isnt applied unless resistance is felt.

often video doesnt represent what actually occured. i rank video with eyewitness testimony. it doesnt show intent or someone's state of mind. you can often show the same vid to 3 different people and get three different interpretations.

knfxda 08-09-2011 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 558536)
ive cuffed folks in real life occasionally at gunpoint sometimes without resistance sometimes havine to put em in prone and knee in the back. only once did i have to apply pressure to subdue a last minute struggle. knee in the back is common practice pressure isnt applied unless resistance is felt.

often video doesnt represent what actually occured. i rank video with eyewitness testimony. it doesnt show intent or someone's state of mind. you can often show the same vid to 3 different people and get three different interpretations.

OK, but you can't tell me that picking a guy up by the cuffs and cranking his arms above and behind him the way the cop did wasn't an unneccessary pr#ck move.

JonM 08-09-2011 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knfxda (Post 558570)
OK, but you can't tell me that picking a guy up by the cuffs and cranking his arms above and behind him the way the cop did wasn't an unneccessary pr#ck move.

again its hard to tell from the vid. assisting someone up from the prone can look worse than it is. during training we practiced on each other including getting up from the prone while cuffed. its not as painful as it looks.

Lindenwood 08-09-2011 02:02 AM

Definitely not murder based on all the evidence.


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