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Old 05-01-2013, 08:57 PM   #1
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What, to your knowledge or in your experience or have you read, are the most powerful load manufacturers in the following calibers...

9mm
45acp

Plus P included...

DoubleTap
CorBon/Glaser
Buffalo Bore

What am I missing?

(Note, what I'm calling powerful is basic muzzle velocity and energy. If you have other ideas on that is be happy to hear them.)



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Old 05-02-2013, 02:27 AM   #2
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There's the pre-fragmented stuff like halopoint and magsafe, but I just don't like the major decrease in bullet weight in order to obtain the extended velocities and energies.



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Old 05-02-2013, 02:49 AM   #3
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There a 4 actual, official +p cartridges- that is, for which a SAAMI spec exists. .38 Special, 9mm, .45 ACP, and ALL .38 Supers.

As such there is a max pressure load to still be a +P. So any maker has a ceiling limit on energy for those rounds. Go above it, no longer +P.

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Old 05-02-2013, 02:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
There a 4 actual, official +p cartridges- that is, for which a SAAMI spec exists. .38 Special, 9mm, .45 ACP, and ALL .38 Supers.

As such there is a max pressure load to still be a +P. So any maker has a ceiling limit on energy for those rounds. Go above it, no longer +P.
That was very helpful input, thanks c3!

I assume that would then put them in the +P+ realm..?
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:22 AM   #5
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I've noticed sort of a theme in my research. The Golden Sabers, Gold Dot, & Critical Duty types all have pretty much the same velocities and energies, but have increased bullet weight over standard pressures of least weight.

Whereas the Buffalo Bore, CorBon and DoubleTap shortly decrease bullet weight and significantly increase velocity and energy.

Just an observation, seems to be two different schools of thought on defensive function.

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Old 05-02-2013, 03:54 AM   #6
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My opinion is like this:

45ACP- for defensive ammo- load a hollow-point to the

least amount of powder which cycle my pistol's action.

The slower the larger bullet moves, the more time it's

going to have to mushroom, once it hits the body...

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Old 05-02-2013, 03:56 AM   #7
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Look at total kinetic energy on target. It should be listed, that's what really matters.

The equation for it is
Kinetic Energy=Mass x Velocity^2 (squared)

Therefore, if you double the weight of the bullet, you get TWICE the energy.
If you double the velocity then you get 4 TIMES the energy.

Keep that in mind

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Old 05-02-2013, 04:21 AM   #8
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BTB,

velocities and energies are only part of the equation when determining stopping power. While they are helpful in comparing rounds that have the same type of bullet, they can deceive someone on how well they stop.

The ability of a round to stop an aggressor is a combination of factors that is encompassed in the science of Terminal Ballistics. This is ballistic data encompassing the time the round enters and spends time in the body. Each type of round reacts differently and therefore affects the target differently.

Tissue disruption is the difference between the temporary stretch cavity and the permanent crush cavity. This can be effected by whether the round passes straight through, or mushrooms, dumping the majority of it's energy in a very short distance, or fragments, causing multiple crush and stretch cavities, albeit smaller.

Placement also comes into play, as trauma applied to vital organs or the spine can be immediately debilitating, even with minor effects. However, a round expending large amounts of energy and damaging massive amounts of tissues my still cause death only by hypovolemic shock (oxygen/blood loss to tissues) in minutes or hours if badly placed. I refer you to this article for a more advanced look at the subject.

So velocity and energy are important, but HOW the bullet utilizes the energy in the body is equally important as is initial placement. There are many, many facets to determining efficiency.

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Old 05-02-2013, 04:55 AM   #9
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Very interesting and great points. I think I'll do some more backyard ballistics with some of these rounds before I settle on any one.

I only recently started to question standard pressure because the federal jhp I've been carrying fail to fully mushroom from my gun in jug tests. The CorBon did great! I think I'm going to start with the high velocity stuff and work my way down.

I know milk jugs aren't the most accurate, but they're what I've got and without proper equipment or willing bodies, good enough.

I did find Hornady critical defense to be reliable in 45, perhaps, if I can find some, I'll try them in 9mm as well. Man what a pain all this is.

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Old 05-02-2013, 05:32 AM   #10
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So here's what my current testing has produced thus far, and why I'm inquiring further about ballistics.

forumrunner_20130501_222911.jpg

forumrunner_20130501_222937.jpg

forumrunner_20130501_222949.jpg

The larger round, fully mushroomed, on the left is Hornady Critical Defense FTX in 45acp, 185gr, from a 3.8" barrel. It performed consistently and reliably.

The smaller round to the right, Federal Premium Personal Defense in 9mm, 124gr, deformed and barely expanded at all, from a 3.4" barrel. It to performed consistently, but as you can see poorly! Not a one of the 20 completely mushroomed. Most did les than this and went straight through into the backstop.

I didn't maintain any of the CorBon I shot previously because it was before I realized I was going to really get into all this, but after seeing the poor results from the Federal, I knew I had to start. Will do the CorBon again along with some others out of sheer curiosity.

It must have to do with barrel length and velocity, perhaps bullet weight as well. In any case, here we go! Lol



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