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Old 05-11-2012, 01:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
i agree that this audio tape of the call will give further credence to the lawsuit and comeback to bite the private security guard and the police in the fact they violated his rights. it was not illegal for him to carry, he had a permit, so therefor nothing illegal happened.

another point is, if you are going to excercise your rights, you had better be prepared for the fact that you will be challenged. how you handle the challenge, might reflect upon how you are dealt with. becoming evasive or rude is probably a good way of being arrested and charged with something. if you remain calm, cooperative and explain your legal rights in a concise and calm manner with some sort of document that states what the legallities are, and then are arrested, it will give further credibility to any lawsuit that would follow.
Very good advise, no question. But it does start to wear thin that the onus falls to the armed citizen that he is the one that has to be on his best behavior, that he has to be polite, that he has to be subjected to illegal confrontations with law enforcement when all he is doing is legally exercising his second amendment rights.....and this happens every day in jurisdictions all over this country.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:22 PM   #32
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Very good advise, no question. But it does start to wear thin that the onus falls to the armed citizen that he is the one that has to be on his best behavior, that he has to be polite, that he has to be subjected to illegal confrontations with law enforcement when all he is doing is legally exercising his second amendment rights.....and this happens every day in jurisdictions all over this country.
i agree, but everyday there is reasons that we need to put forth the best representation of being safe and responsible gun owners who defend the preservation of the 2nd admendment. if we come off as rude, belligerent, raving lunatics, it just gives more credence to the anti gunners cause. right now, in defence of the 2nd admendment, we as gun owners don't have the true tactical high ground we need to have. sure it's getting better, but still needs much improvement. there are many non-gun owners who sit on the fence when it comes to gun ownership. by putting our best behaviour forth, we show them, that maybe the anti gunners are the problem and that their methods of wanting gun control or elimination will never solve the problem of crime. that has always been the contention of the anti gunners, that gun control or the elimination of guns would eliminate crime. we on this forum and many other forums know this to be a fallacy. time after time in very recent history, there is overwhelming proof that gun ownership, the Castle Laws, CC and OC are making dents in violent crimes against law abiding citizens. these are the messages we need to get out.

i live in a county that has about 24,000 residents in it including the largest city within it. there are about 25 police officer, there are about 15 county deputies, and about 6 highway patrol officers. that equals to about 521 people per officer. parts of the county are very rural, so response time could be anywhere from 10-20 minutes. so in relation to the officer to citizen ratio and the response time in the event of a violent criminal act, i would think that i would be better off being able to defend myself rather than waiting for someone to do it for me. in 10-20 minutes, a criminal could do much harm to someone and be long gone before LEO's arrived. these are facts that the non-gun owners need to be made aware of. why it's important to defend the right to bear arms to defend your life and your loved ones.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:16 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by axxe55

i agree, but everyday there is reasons that we need to put forth the best representation of being safe and responsible gun owners who defend the preservation of the 2nd admendment. if we come off as rude, belligerent, raving lunatics, it just gives more credence to the anti gunners cause. right now, in defence of the 2nd admendment, we as gun owners don't have the true tactical high ground we need to have. sure it's getting better, but still needs much improvement. there are many non-gun owners who sit on the fence when it comes to gun ownership. by putting our best behaviour forth, we show them, that maybe the anti gunners are the problem and that their methods of wanting gun control or elimination will never solve the problem of crime. that has always been the contention of the anti gunners, that gun control or the elimination of guns would eliminate crime. we on this forum and many other forums know this to be a fallacy. time after time in very recent history, there is overwhelming proof that gun ownership, the Castle Laws, CC and OC are making dents in violent crimes against law abiding citizens. these are the messages we need to get out.

i live in a county that has about 24,000 residents in it including the largest city within it. there are about 25 police officer, there are about 15 county deputies, and about 6 highway patrol officers. that equals to about 521 people per officer. parts of the county are very rural, so response time could be anywhere from 10-20 minutes. so in relation to the officer to citizen ratio and the response time in the event of a violent criminal act, i would think that i would be better off being able to defend myself rather than waiting for someone to do it for me. in 10-20 minutes, a criminal could do much harm to someone and be long gone before LEO's arrived. these are facts that the non-gun owners need to be made aware of. why it's important to defend the right to bear arms to defend your life and your loved ones.
Very well said, I agree wholly
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:51 PM   #34
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Chris,
The criminal case has been “nol prossed,” meaning the case against you has been dropped. It’s off the calendar and you do not have to go to court Thursday or next week (or ever).
John
The civil suit against Hanna, Bell and Dantzler remains of course.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:38 PM   #35
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Sounds like to me that two tools met in a public park. The security guard was wrong in his understanding of the law and probably called the police because he thought he was right. The walker is a tool because of his evasiveness when questioned. It doesnt matter that he wasnt driving, you still have to produce your dl or id whichever applies. Id say since he was acting like a d-bag to leos he got what was coming to hin.

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Old 07-03-2012, 09:42 PM   #36
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Sounds like to me that two tools met in a public park. The security guard was wrong in his understanding of the law and probably called the police because he thought he was right. The walker is a tool because of his evasiveness when questioned. It doesnt matter that he wasnt driving, you still have to produce your dl or id whichever applies. Id say since he was acting like a d-bag to leos he got what was coming to hin.
With respect, your understanding of the law is lacking.
1) There is no state that requires its citizenry to carry identification 24/7. If there is, I haven't come across it in my research so far.
2) There is no state that requires it's citizenry to produce identification documents without at least a Reasonable Articulable Suspicion that criminal activity has recently occurred, is presently occurring, or is about to occur.
3) The only requirement any state has, is to produce a license (and sometimes identification) when performing a licensed activity.

As to why the security guard called the police, he stated his reason in his phone call.
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/IlUXUHgYn0g&ap=%2526fmt%3D18&fs=1

One may note that there is no accusation of "suspicious actvity", nor any allegation of specific criminal activity once he was directly asked.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:35 PM   #37
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With respect, your understanding of the law is lacking.
1) There is no state that requires its citizenry to carry identification 24/7. If there is, I haven't come across it in my research so far.
2) There is no state that requires it's citizenry to produce identification documents without at least a Reasonable Articulable Suspicion that criminal activity has recently occurred, is presently occurring, or is about to occur.
3) The only requirement any state has, is to produce a license (and sometimes identification) when performing a licensed activity.

As to why the security guard called the police, he stated his reason in his phone call.
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/IlUXUHgYn0g&ap=%2526fmt%3D18&fs=1

One may note that there is no accusation of "suspicious actvity", nor any allegation of specific criminal activity once he was directly asked.
You are required to carry id and your permit if youre carrying a firearm. Sometimes leos are also called to check the validity of handgun permits so carrying your weapon is a reason to be stopped and asked.
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:19 PM   #38
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That MAY be the case in Indiana (you haven't made a citation to any law), but in Georgia one is NOT required to carry any ID at all, only a license when performing a licensed activity, see O.C.G.A. § 16-11-129. Specifically, I'm required to possess a license when carrying a weapon as defined in the Georgia Code. I'm not required by law to produce it, it's the responsibility of the prosecution to prove I do not possess one. In Georgia we have this thing called a presumption of innocence.

In regards to your second point, a law enforcement may be called in response to a wide variety of things and is free to ask any questions he wants. He can ask if I have a license, he can ask if my favorite color is blue, he can ask if I want to come back to his place, cover ourselves in Crisco and play Naked Twister.

He just lacks the authority of law to demand answers except pursuant to codified law.

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Old 07-04-2012, 01:29 AM   #39
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This is an old thread, but I'm just now getting around to reading the story.

Point: DOB was incorrect.
Point: "suspect" seems to have an affinity for incorrect DOB's.
Point: IF it is required in his city/state to have a carry permit even for open carry, then he broke the law. BECAUSE the incorrect DOB makes the permit invalid.
If he is required to have a permit in this scenario, and he KNOWINGLY was carrying an invalid permit, moreover, IF he intentionally got an incorrect DOB thereby misleading the issuing officials, then there are probably several charges he could rack up.

I haven't followed the story, have no idea how it turned out. I haven't read the thread either. I don't agree with having to be issued a permit myself. This is all just my opinion based on the article provided in the link on the first post.
I'm also not an open carry advocate, but I AM a carry advocate. It's up to the individual to choose how.

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Old 07-04-2012, 02:19 AM   #40
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If the guy was not breaking any law by having his pistol then there was no reason to cause all this hoopla. The defendant has no legal responsibility to tell police anything. Smart or dumb does not even matter. All that does matter is weather or not this guy was breaking any laws. If the guy was operating a vehicle then I can see asking for a drivers lic. But this was not the case here. At least that's how I understand the situation as it pertains to this case.

I had seen somewhere in this thread that police have to make sure a person open carrying is not some nut. Why is that? If the law says you can carry a weapon say in an open carry state that means police have to stop everyone they see with a gun? I'm not all that sure but I really don't think many instances of people doing bad things with a firearm where walking around wit hit in the open before they went trigger happy. Because most bad guys don't want the attention until it's time to get bad. Truth be told I am much more weary of the person I see with a consealed weapon printing than I am of someone with a open, easy to see holster on their belt.

Sure this guy was a bit of a tool with police but there was nothing illegal about what he did that I can really see. Maybe he is one of those types that looks for confrontation but I didn't think that being an ass was illegal.

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