Man sues over arrest for open carry - Page 13
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:23 AM   #121
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One simply MUST ask-

Is that the Gary Parkle Pirk, or the Gary Pirkle Park?

Will the Pride of Packing Picnic at Pirkle Park penultimately percolate thru the peasants, peons, and politicos of a pachyderm persuasion in particular- Practically speaking?

Sorry- Happy Anniversary- but I just could not resist....
We've been referring it to as the First Annual Gary Parkle Pirk Peacefully Packing Picnic.

I sent a nice email to the Parks and Recreation Department, thanking them for the wonderful accommodations and included a few pictures of the group for their bulletin board.
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:01 AM   #122
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Open carry, as one or In a group, is troubling to some. So why trouble others, to get a thrill packing a gun?

I do not see open carry as anything but uncontrolled responses headed toward the gun owner. Why risk it? Guns are better low key, till they are needed.

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Old 04-21-2013, 06:22 AM   #123
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I live in a constitutional carry state so there is no issue in open or concealed carry. We do not have to agree to carry rules by accepting a state permit to carry or own.
In a state or jurisdiction where you are required to have a permit to carry or own you are required to surrender such documents when ask by an LEO. In this case a complaint was made. The LEO had a duty to follow up and request the gun owner comply.
His law suite will be thrown out by the courts.

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Old 04-21-2013, 10:44 AM   #124
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I'm amazed at the divide created here and in public the second a situation includes a LEO and a civilian, both with weapons, but only one with a badge. Common sense and etiquette seem to carry more weight than the laws themselves. For some reason, the second the citizen gets emotional while he packing, he's assumed to be a risk to the cop and "others" and must be a criminal or worthy of detention and physical response by the LEO.

This isnt a discussion of if one should always show respect to LEO's, we should show due respect to everyone, everyday but there is no law that says we must be respectful or were automatically suspect of a crime thats not in evidence just because were carrying a legal tool. Being rude or disrespectful to a Police officer or an elected representative may be poor manners but its not against the law even in New York!

The next thing those "supporting" LEO's over reaction say is "Leo's have a dangerous job, we need to support them", yup I agree but they chose that job knowing they must serve and protect all citizens rights regardless of the verbal attitude of those they encounter. As an Infantry Soldier, I had the same requirement, I wouldnt be justified to manhandle anyone that was rude, we were trained to expect verbal resistance and react within the laws and ROE's. The USA isnt a warzone, its a nation of citizens that are assumed innocent unless proven guilty in a court of law.

Those testing the waters of the 2A with a less civil attitude arent to be congratulated but they likely dont deserve retaliation without a specific action that goes further than "He was rude and he had a gun". If having a gun and a less than polite demeanor are against the law than probably half the LEO's and Soldiers are just as guilty as the person they are detaining for a "lack of good manners while in possession of a firearm".

I would not choose Law enforcement as my career for many reasons, one big one is I just dont have what it takes to stand down when someone gets in my face that isnt my boss but thats just me knowing me. Call me an idiot if you want but Police Officers serve us, we have no mandate to serve them or bow to any supremacy they wield via their badge. Because we were National Guard, we trained often for Civil Disturbance, we were provoked and prodded verbally with skirmishers attempts to make us react and break ranks any way they could. It was both our job and duty to stay focused on the actions of those taunting us, not their words.

A bunch of you that are LEO's will disapprove of my conjecture here as naive or anti LEO, It neither of those. Ive stood side by side with LEO's in full riot gear, machine gun in my hand and would do it again any day the need arises. They respected the Bars and Rocker on my Helmet and US Army on my chest then, they need to respect the fact that Im just one of the US Citizens they were hired to protect rights regardless of their opinion or judgement of my attitude without actual cause even without the Military Rank on my forehead.

Yes its a horribly tough job, yes I have been respectful to every Police Officer Ive ever encountered in my life, no its not the law to mandate that as a term of citizenship. Lastly, just like every other profession, there are many doing it that are unsuited mentally to do the job because they morph the laws they live by that we are required to abide by.

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Old 04-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #125
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Open Carriers are ALWAYS the first ones shot... That's been proven over and over again on the internet. Concealed and covered up with clothes that can be discretely moved out of the way for easy and quick access to the firearm. Criminals never have 2nd thoughts when they see an OC firearm.

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Old 04-21-2013, 01:00 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
I live in a constitutional carry state so there is no issue in open or concealed carry. We do not have to agree to carry rules by accepting a state permit to carry or own.
In a state or jurisdiction where you are required to have a permit to carry or own you are required to surrender such documents when ask by an LEO. In this case a complaint was made. The LEO had a duty to follow up and request the gun owner comply.
His law suite will be thrown out by the courts.
You would be incorrect, Sir.

What complaint was made about illegal conduct? The basis of Hanna's phone call to Gwinnett County had no allegation of illegal conduct. The worst thing I was doing according to the phone call was "he's just .... walking" (gasp!)

In Georgia not having a license to carry a weapon is an element of the crime, same as not having a license to drive an automobile. Without a reason to suspect one does not have a valid driver's license an officer cannot randomly pull over everyone he sees driving. The exceptions are when pulled over for a suspected traffic infraction or when entering a suspicionless checkpoint, aka 'driver's license check'.

Georgia Code 40-5-29 is the controlling authority for an officer to demand the display of a license to drive. The same language is not present in OCGA 16-11-129.

The only suit that has been thrown out is the 'trespassing in a public park' charge. Despite the written reports of Officer Garth Bell, Rodney Dantzler, Cpl J.P. Kimsey and Security Guard Reid Hanna, the Gwinnett County Solicitor found insufficient evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I'll note that No contact was made with the county solicitor either by myself or my attorney.

Four guys said "he did it" and the county solicitor requests the court to nolle prosequi the case? Not exactly stellar police work, eh?

Further, the county solicitor's opinion in the nolle prosequi document is that "Defendant had a valid weapon carry license pursuant to 16-11-126(g)" which means that the detention was invalid from the very start.

I wonder if I can get a copy of the video where the arresting officer lowers his head as he realizes he just made a certain admission as to his conduct at the park?
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:20 PM   #127
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We have to get to the root of this problem. The 'law' is what we use to define 'criminal activity'. Thus if the 'government' pass a 'law' and a person violates this law they are a 'criminal'. The laws I refused (and still do) to enforce were/are 'anti gun laws' which were/are in direct conflict with the 'spirit/intent' of the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the USA!
Just because it is 'against the law' does not mean it is wrong. The 'Jim Crow' LAWS are a perfect example of this. The current anti gun laws on the book at ALL levels of government are no different than the Jim Crow laws were. They were enacted by an elitist class of politicians to control a minority by depriving them of their GOD given rights! Any LEO who enforces these laws is no better than the LEO's who enforced the Jim Crow laws and beat and arrested the civil rights marchers in the 60's!

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:20 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partdeux View Post
Open Carriers are ALWAYS the first ones shot... That's been proven over and over again on the internet. Concealed and covered up with clothes that can be discretely moved out of the way for easy and quick access to the firearm. Criminals never have 2nd thoughts when they see an OC firearm.
Hmm... I'm not an OC Guy... Yet... Been a daily CCW guy for 17 years and have never seen a report of an OC person being present at let alone shot first by a armed robber or mass shooter?

Got any links to this claim?

This concern is why I've not OC'd yet... but a concern is a fear, not a fact. Personally I think it's far more likely that if a person contemplating criminal violence noticed an OC person... he'd probable walk out quietly and seek a softer target.

Just my .02 Cents.

Tack
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:00 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
Hmm... I'm not an OC Guy... Yet... Been a daily CCW guy for 17 years and have never seen a report of an OC person being present at let alone shot first by a armed robber or mass shooter?

Got any links to this claim?

This concern is why I've not OC'd yet... but a concern is a fear, not a fact. Personally I think it's far more likely that if a person contemplating criminal violence noticed an OC person... he'd probable walk out quietly and seek a softer target.

Just my .02 Cents.

Tack
this is strictly an opinion of mine on the subject, but it might be depending on whether OC is the norm or the exception. if OC is rather routine, then it might deter someone from committing a criminal act and seek a softer target. but if it's the exception rather than the norm, it could cause the person OC to be the first viable target to put down.

this is strictly an opinion and an observation and not fact by any means and just adding into the discussion.
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:14 PM   #130
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I think it has far more to do with the intended "perp".

Should an LEO or Vet pop there cork and go psycho then yes... We'd certainly shoot the armed victims first... but those trained to win gunfights are historically not the ones doing this.

Chris Dorner was the only exception I'm aware of.

Most active shooters are punks with no training. Neither the Clackamas Mall coward or Aurora Bitch Boy could even manage to clear a jammed AR.

The threats we face will either be "Pookey" from da hood or another overprivilage, medicated "gamer" suffering from "small penis comex".

...and these ass hats always flee or eat there own gun at the first sign of resistance.

Tack

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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
this is strictly an opinion of mine on the subject, but it might be depending on whether OC is the norm or the exception. if OC is rather routine, then it might deter someone from committing a criminal act and seek a softer target. but if it's the exception rather than the norm, it could cause the person OC to be the first viable target to put down.

this is strictly an opinion and an observation and not fact by any means and just adding into the discussion.
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