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Old 10-04-2012, 04:48 AM   #101
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Why couldn't this case be handled in the same way? If the officer is unsure about the law call a superior officer and get it straight.
Because it has been my experience that officers do not like being told they are wrong.

When I was living with my brother I had just gotten into carrying. But I quickly learned the local laws in NC.

In NC if you have a CCW you must notify LEOs that you have one even if you are not carrying. But NC is a constitutional open carry state.

It also specifically states that you must only carry identification if you hold a CCW (regardless of if you are carrying or not) or when driving. One day I was walking my dog OCing and got stopped for doing something completely legal. Walking down the street OCing (I did not have a CCW). Cop arrested me because I did not have my license on me. You're dammed right I got irate with him. First there was no cause for a stop. A LEO can not stop someone for doing something that is completely legal. And they certainly can not arrest you for not carrying a driver's license when you aren't driving. Second he was a smug but ignorant ass from the get go.

During the stop he asked me to show my CCW. I said I didn't have one, and didn't need one to OC. He said. "I know. Let me see your driver's license." Me "But Officer Im not driving so I don't have it. So why did you stop me?" "I need to make sure you can legally carry that. So I need to run your license to make sure you're not a felon." "Don't I have the presumption of innocence? What law do you think Im breaking? Id like you to call your supervisor."

On come the cuffs.


Long story short it got dropped.

Cop wasnt punished because he did not know the law. Last I heard, Ignorance of the law is no excuse. If I do my job poorly I am fired.

I hope this guy is able to retire.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:52 AM   #102
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Here in NC we have an auto tag called a transport tag. It is a regular commercial tag except it says transport across the bottom. It gives mechanics and auction transporters the right to drive many cars with the same tag. Even if the car has no proper title. You can have one transport tag and your regular liability insurance covers this tag under the same clause that covers rental cars

I have had officers pull me over with the transport tag that were unsure about the law regarding the use of a transport tag. They didn't jerk me around or give me grief. The just called a superior officer who brought a book that covers the proper use of the transport tag. Yes, they detained me a few minutes longer than a normal traffic stop but in the end the officers did the right thing. They wished me a safe trip to my destination and said good night.

Why couldn't this case be handled in the same way? If the officer is unsure about the law call a superior officer and get it straight.
Even this is not the proper way to handle a situation. You could win a suit against the PD for illegal detainment. The way that should have been handled by an officer who is unsure is follow you while putting in a call to find out what the deal is.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:54 AM   #103
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The way that should have been handled by an officer who is unsure is follow you while putting in a call to find out what the deal is.
That would annoy the piss out of me, but not NEARLY as much as being arrested for doing nothing wrong.

I have not had any trouble with any LEOs as of yet while OC'ing here in Louisiana. Granted, as of recently, everywhere I go I have this little shadow tagging along, which probably helps. But even before I went to get him, and I was walking around by myself, I had no trouble. Well, I did have one cop who stopped me to chit chat. He wanted a 1911, but his department has a standing policy against single actions. He was so down about it, because he was forced to carry a gun he hates and doesn't feel is safe.

Overall, I have good experiences with cops. Except Louisiana state police. Do ya really freaking NEED 27 cars with speed guns on a 30 mile stretch of highway?

And one time I was stopped for speeding, the cop said "I clocked you with my.... LAY zorrrrrr" like Dr. Evil, he even did the stupid pinky thing. The first thing that went through my head was "oh crap, a super trooper..."


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Old 10-04-2012, 02:11 PM   #104
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"...Why couldn't this case be handled in the same way? If the officer is unsure about the law call a superior officer and get it straight.
Two superior officers were called to the scene, Corporal Kimsey and Sergeant Chapel.
I believe Sergeant Chapel knew it was legal, witness his words -
Sgt. Chapel, "Why are you walking around the park with a gun exposed? Not that you can’t."
Proescher, "W-whoa wait. There’s a difference of opinion, he says I can’t, you say I can."
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:34 PM   #105
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I'm retired after 25+ years as an LEO. I worked in a state (PA) where open carry is permitted.

The city where I worked has a very high homicide rate and the rate of felons carrying weapons is very high.

Ironically, during my career I made dozens of traffic stops with drivers who were carrying concealed weapons legally. None of them ever acted like jerks and in-turn, I never treated them like a jerk.

I realize that this is just anecdotal but each and every person I encountered who was open carrying behaved confrontational with me when I would merely engage them conversationally without detaining them. They had the right to walk away from me but most of them acted as if they were looking for a confrontation.......strange.

Yes, LEO's should be knowledgeable of all state laws regarding open carry. But if I saw any unusual behavior associated with someone open carrying I would have a high level of concern and would then approach that person to try to assess them further.

I now carry concealed in upstate NY where I live. I've already encountered police in NY who are unaware that all retired LEO's can carry a weapon both open and concealed in all 50 states. If I were to be detained and questioned by a police officer I wouldn't file a civil suit against them.......unless I was wrongly arrested.....then I would consider my options.

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Old 10-05-2012, 10:00 PM   #106
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Adk- also a former LEO. There are some folks that are simply jerks, with or without the badge.

Son-in-law Elect is a Lt with Sheriff's Dept here in VA. He and my daughter were visiting the Metropolitan Museum in NYC- security staff freaked out when they saw his shield when he was paying for admission- "You can't bring a gun in here!" He said "I'm not." They detained him for about 10 minutes certain that he was carrying (and he was not).

I have had LEOs in other states tell me I could not carry in their state- WHEN I WAS WORKING. My answer then was simply "Call your supervisor- now."

Not everyone we meet will be pleasant, some members of the public WILL be confrontational. However, you and I both know that 'Aggravated Confronting" is not a violation of the criminal code. And to arrest someone for an act that is not illegal is being Stupid in Public.

Yes, I have detained people that were irritated at me. "Why did you pull me over?" When things are a bit quieter you have the time to say "You are driving a yellow Chevy Nova. 5 minutes ago, the 7-11 up the street was robbed by a man in a yellow Chevy Nova. You are not him- but I could not tell that until I stopped you. "

A lot of police work is being able to handle people. That seems to be lost on a lot of LEOs today. And back in the day, your pay might suck, but you had the best credit of anyone- because you were more honest and trustworthy than a Boy Scout. That also seems to be absent, or at least severally impaired with a disheartening number of LEOs today.

I have said this before- I am SO glad I live in a rural county with a Sheriff's Dept, where the deputies are part of the community. Folks say hi to them in the restaurants, see them sitting next pew over in church, coaching the Little League team, or fishing with their kid on a day off. Those are OUR deputies. Then I see a video of a Baltimore cop stomping on a toy car down at the Inner Harbor, and wonder why this is tolerated.

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Old 10-05-2012, 10:45 PM   #107
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C3,

In my little tiny town, we go from a kewl LEO who used to live next door to me, to the chief who I believe is as honest and honorable as the day is long, to the local MADD winner, who got the award by violating state law. Then there was the sargent that thought mere mortals shouldn't be allowed to own firearms.

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:57 PM   #108
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C3,
Great points.

There must be something in the water in Albany (lefty politicos passing insane restrictions on ccw)!!

I'm absolutely disgusted with the restrictions of possessing a handgun in NY.....even by a landowner on his own land! If my 85 yr old dad wants to possess a handgun on my property (he's a Pennsylvania resident) then per NY law he's committing a felony!

IN PA you can have your ccw permit in-hand within 2-3 weeks from the date of filing your application.

I grew up here in the Adirondacks and it's where my grandparents settled after coming across the pond from Scotland.
But between the gun laws and tax rates here, it's awful to see "gimme it" mentality among the libs in state government.

My land has been in my family since 1920 and now it's mine and my family's to enjoy......even with the lefty loons circling my pension like sharks.

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Old 10-06-2012, 04:57 AM   #109
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AdkFlight

You are a leo, and just like this thread is referencing, leos dont actually know all the gun laws. I too am a leo, but must admit I know a fraction of the gun laws. However you are giving blatantly false information. LEOSA gives up the ability to carry in all 50 states without a permit, yes you are correct on that. But, you need to reread the law. We are NOT granted to ability to open carry anywhere. Someone will see you claim a gun law, see you are a leo, and believe what you say is correct in the law.

If your not sure about something, say I think or I believe, dont say it is.

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Old 10-06-2012, 05:06 AM   #110
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Im no cop. But I thought LEOSA gave qualified officers the ability to get a, for lack of a better word, permit to carry in all fifty states. Not simply carry just because they were a cop at one point. There was some form of application process or something I thought.

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