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Old 10-03-2012, 04:07 PM   #91
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This thread has been cleaned and reopened for a follow up.

Please do not start up the old arguments, that's over.

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Old 10-03-2012, 04:10 PM   #92
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I'd like to thank the academy. Most specifically the moderators and staff... For making this possible. Without them, we'd fall into chaos...

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Old 10-03-2012, 05:57 PM   #93
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With the permission of the moderators, the thread's been reopened and I can post the latest updates.
1) The county solicitor requested the court to nolle prosequi the trespass case. I would note the handwritten addendum to the NP request; I suspect the solicitor recognized why the stop occurred in the first place which made it invalid.
Nolle Prosequi request.

2. Plaza Security guard Paul Reid Hanna, and Officers Adam Garth Bell and Rodney Dantzler were deposed on 29 and 30 August, respectively. On 30 August the attorney representing Mr. Hanna made a monetary offer to have Mr. Hanna dropped from the civil suit. The 42 U.S.C. § 1983 suit against Officers Bell and Dantzler proceeds apace.

3. Now that discovery is over, it can safely be admitted that there was an audio recording of the event. The audio recording confirms that no false information was given, that the date of birth was stated clearly as "12...May...Nineteen fifty-eight" and that the subjects name was spelled clearly using the phonetic alphabet.

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Old 10-03-2012, 07:08 PM   #94
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GoogleDrive is a bit overwhelmed at the moment and won't allow downloads of the audio nor of the transcript.
For those who appreciate a bit of comic relief, I can post a few excerpts -

Was there a disturbance?
In the words of Gwinnett County Police Officer Adam Bell and Plaza Security guard Paul Hanna -
Ofc. Bell, "Did you get a call out here?"
Hanna, "No, I just randomly came in and saw him walking. I said…"

Why was the subject detained?
In the words of Officer Adam Garth Bell, "I’m detaining you for having a weapon. Do you have any weapons on you… uh, besides your gun?"

Is it illegal to carry a firearm openly in a public park?
Senior supervisor on-scene, Sergeant Chapel
Sgt. Chapel, "Why are you walking around the park with a gun exposed? Not that you can’t."
"W-whoa wait. There’s a difference of opinion, he says I can’t, you say I can."

Was the subject evasive or did he refuse to answer any questions?
Senior supervisor on-scene, Sergeant Chapel
Sgt. Chapel, "You’re not going to identify where you live? What if you died right now? What if you passed out, what would you want us to do for you?"
"Ummm.. kick me to the curb?"

and

Sgt Chapel, "You know, your permit is a privilege as well as a right. It can be taken away from you as well."
"By the Probate Court Judge. Would you like the number?"
Sgt Chapel, "We have the number."
Sgt Chapel, "... and when you’re given a permit you’re expected to cooperate a little bit with law enforcement."
"Actually, I’m required to cooperate; as required by law."
Sgt Chapel, "Why aren’t you?"
"What am I not doing that’s required?"
(silence)
"What am I not doing that’s required, Sergeant Chapel?"
(silence)
Sgt Chapel, "did you drive here, sir, or did you walk here?"
"What am I not doing that’s required, Sergeant Chapel?"
Sgt Chapel, "Did you drive here, or did you walk here?"
"What am I not doing that’s required, Sergeant Chapel?"
Sgt Chapel, "There you go, right there."

((... at that point Sgt Chapel decided he had more pressing matters to attend to and left the immediate area.))

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Old 10-03-2012, 07:20 PM   #95
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Was the date of birth given in a confusing manner?
Officer Bell, "What’s your date of birth?"
"Twelve… May… Nineteen Fifty-eight."
Ofc. Bell, "May 12th, 1958?"

"Officer Dantzler, how may I be of assistance?"
Ofc. Dantzler, "Spell your last name?"
"Papa-Romeo-Oscar-Echo-Sierra-Charlie-Hotel-Echo-Romeo."
Ofc. Dantzler, "your first name?"
"Charlie-Hotel-Romeo-oh****it, Christopher."
Ofc. Dantzler, "What’s your date of birth?"
"Same as it says on my GWL."
Ofc. Dantzler, "What is your date of birth?"
"Oh.. sometime.. about the 12th of May. Nineteen fifty-eight."
Ofc. Dantzler, "The 12th of May?"
"Yeah. It’s either it’s either twelve-five or five-twelve depending on how you look at it."

Corporal Kimsey, "Well I appreciate that. Now, do you have any identification on you, a driver’s license or an identification card from the state of Georgia or any state in the United States?"
"My name is Christopher Allen Proescher."
Cpl. Kimsey, "I didn’t ask that."
"I was born 12 May, 1958."
Cpl. Kimsey, "Sir, we’re not going to play this game."
"I have now identified myself."
Cpl Kimsey, "I’m asking for identification."
"I’ve given you my identification."
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:02 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thPointOfContact View Post
Corporal Kimsey, "Well I appreciate that. Now, do you have any identification on you, a driver’s license or an identification card from the state of Georgia or any state in the United States?"
"My name is Christopher Allen Proescher."
Cpl. Kimsey, "I didn’t ask that."
"I was born 12 May, 1958."
Cpl. Kimsey, "Sir, we’re not going to play this game."
"I have now identified myself."
Cpl Kimsey, "I’m asking for identification."
"I’ve given you my identification."
I really like this part.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:51 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by rjd3282 View Post
Here we go again. The guy isn't doing anything illegal but he is forced to explain himself just because he's carrying. What is even sadder, is we have pro 2a members upset with him because he told them to go piss up a rope. If he had been exercising unarmed would the security guard have bothered with him? Why do you guys think it is OK for people to be hassled when they aren't doing anything wrong? The only time police stop me when I'm driving is when I'm doing something wrong. They don't just pull me over because I'm driving. "OMG that guys got a car we better stop him, or OMG that guys got a baseball bat we better stop him." What is the flippin difference?
You are somewhat wrong with your driving analogy. I cop can, and will, pull you over if he suspects that you might be doing something illegal. Try weaving down the street at 2:00 AM. The cop is going to stop you, interrogate you, test you, and either let you go, or let you have a ride.
If you act like an ass, you are probably going to get a ride even if you pass the test.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:03 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainfire View Post
You are somewhat wrong with your driving analogy. I cop can, and will, pull you over if he suspects that you might be doing something illegal. Try weaving down the street at 2:00 AM. The cop is going to stop you, interrogate you, test you, and either let you go, or let you have a ride.
If you act like an ass, you are probably going to get a ride even if you pass the test.
What? I don't even... You pass the test. But you still get a ride cause the cop doesn't like your "attitude". Definition of a police state my friend. And I take strong objection.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:25 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainfire View Post
You are somewhat wrong with your driving analogy. I cop can, and will, pull you over if he suspects that you might be doing something illegal. Try weaving down the street at 2:00 AM. The cop is going to stop you, interrogate you, test you, and either let you go, or let you have a ride.
If you act like an ass, you are probably going to get a ride even if you pass the test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tCan View Post
What? I don't even... You pass the test. But you still get a ride cause the cop doesn't like your "attitude". Definition of a police state my friend. And I take strong objection.
For once I actually agree with Tcan. Attitude can take you from warning to ticket, from ticket to jail, but if you "pass the test" you pass the test. To arrest someone for POPO shold be a think of the past.

Oh and POPO is Pissing Off a Peace Officer. Closely akin to PODS, Pissing Off a Deputy Sheriff and POST, Pissing Off a State Trooper.

None of which should be valid charges in this day and age.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:25 AM   #100
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Here in NC we have an auto tag called a transport tag. It is a regular commercial tag except it says transport across the bottom. It gives mechanics and auction transporters the right to drive many cars with the same tag. Even if the car has no proper title. You can have one transport tag and your regular liability insurance covers this tag under the same clause that covers rental cars

I have had officers pull me over with the transport tag that were unsure about the law regarding the use of a transport tag. They didn't jerk me around or give me grief. The just called a superior officer who brought a book that covers the proper use of the transport tag. Yes, they detained me a few minutes longer than a normal traffic stop but in the end the officers did the right thing. They wished me a safe trip to my destination and said good night.

Why couldn't this case be handled in the same way? If the officer is unsure about the law call a superior officer and get it straight.

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