[robocop10mm]

Why ya need a .45 for a back up? Choose the right tool for the job. Not all situations call for the OC. Not all situations call for the .45. Most of us own more than one gun, one knife, one screwdriver, one wrench. An 8 lb slegehammer is great for its intended purpose but does not torque sparkplugs very well. I have peppersprayed bad guys, Rottweilers and pizza. Even a 120 Rotty was "eventually" deterred by the OC. Yes, it took nearly half a can but I did not have to write any memos titled "Dear Sheriff" and the owner was greatful to still have her dog. 12 ga does a number on a pit bull that was marauding the neighborhood. The difference was the Rotty surprised me and I could plan and prepare for the pit bull.
OC just another tool in the tool box.

[jeepcreep927]

I agree with 10mm here. OC may work great, and it may not work at all. It shouldn't be the ONLY option. For civilian use I would say it's best suited for a strictly defend/ get away tool. I wouldn't spray someone then stick around to see what happens and or wait for the police. I have sprayed several people but only to gain an advantage. Inevitably it ends up in a "hands on" situation and the OC just gives me a little advantage. Someone who is determined may not be able to see you, but if they can get their hands on you, not seeing is not a big detriment to being able to fight. THE absolute best thing I have found is called Vexor. It is VERY effective on every "test subject" I have met so far. It hurts. A lot. I don't believe it is on the open market however.

[mtnscout]

I'm certified to carry OC and I do 5 days a week. The training to use it tells you that about one in a thousand won't be affected and if they have mental issues or are high on PCP they may not even care. BUT I've seen big nasty men drop after a quick accurate spray. It leaves no permanent damage for possible lawsuits and unlike a taser the bad guy is disoreinted long enough to get the cuffs on. I put in accurate for a reason, get it in their eyes or they may keep coming. And if you want to see something very effective there's a device called an ispa-jet used in corrections that looks like a space age bazooka and when you fire that into a cell even the worst offender is usually asking to put the cuffs on.
OC is a good tool if you know it's limitations and as previously said consider it just one more of a range of options depending on the appropriate level of force. My two cents.

[matt g]

Originally Posted by jeepcreep927

I agree with 10mm here. OC may work great, and it may not work at all. It shouldn't be the ONLY option. For civilian use I would say it's best suited for a strictly defend/ get away tool. I wouldn't spray someone then stick around to see what happens and or wait for the police. I have sprayed several people but only to gain an advantage. Inevitably it ends up in a "hands on" situation and the OC just gives me a little advantage. Someone who is determined may not be able to see you, but if they can get there hands on you, not seeing is not a big detriment to being able to fight. THE absolute best thing I have found is called Vexor. It is VERY effective on every "test subject" I have met so far. It hurts. A lot. I don't believe it is on the open market however.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vexor is just a brand of OC. They just really refine it before canning it.

[jeepcreep927]

Vexor is a brand name, but it is not "OC" in the typical sense. Vexor contains no oleoresin. I suppose you could say it has been "refined", but it is a different animal all together. It produces 15 million SCH versus generally 2-5 million from other typical "OC" brands. The process of removing the oleoresin is proprietary and to my knowledge, Vexor is the only company currently offering a spray with pure capsaicinoids as the only active ingrediant. It also uses CO2 as a propellant and it's delivery is unaffected by variations in heat or cold. In Vermont, we have -20 in the winter and 100+ summer temps. No issues with the CO2 propellant. So, short answer, no, Vexor is not "OC". It is derived from capsicum peppers however.

[matt g]

Originally Posted by jeepcreep927

Vexor is a brand name, but it is not "OC" in the typical sense. Vexor contains no oleoresin. I suppose you could say it has been "refined", but it is a different animal all together. It produces 15 million SCH versus generally 2-5 million from other typical "OC" brands. The process of removing the oleoresin is proprietary and to my knowledge, Vexor is the only company currently offering a spray with pure capsaicinoids as the only active ingrediant. It also uses CO2 as a propellant and it's delivery is unaffected by variations in heat or cold. In Vermont, we have -20 in the winter and 100+ summer temps. No issues with the CO2 propellant. So, short answer, no, Vexor is not "OC". It is derived from capsicum peppers however.

I'd need to take a shot to see how well it works. That's the only reason I know that the Sabre is more effective than standard OC.

[jeepcreep927]

Wow, you are dedicated! I love the effectiveness but the cross contamination is a b***c. I got some on the back of my hand after deploying it a few weeks ago. Even after repeated washing, my skin still burned almost 12 hours later. I have never taken an intentional frontal hit with Vexor, but have a few times in training with several other brands. If you contact Vexor, they will send a free sample 2oz can to L/E. PM me if you want the contact info for the company rep I am using. Try out the sample and I think you'll be impressed.

[Defender]

Originally Posted by Kavtomat

Is Mace/Pepper Spray a good enough defense against an attacker that may recover from it quickly and be faster to you or not react to it at all? What is the probability that a person will be immune to mace or pepper spray when used in a personal protection situation?

Pepper gel and pepper foam are both preferable to pepper spray.

I'd recommend buying Mace brand 10% pepper gel with UV dye. Be sure to shake the cannister thoroughly once a day. After a year, throw it out and buy a new cannister.

It should only be used as a backup weapon, or when a firearm isn't necessary.

[GlenJohnson]

Few years ago, up north, wife and I had a gift shop. There was a thief running around town. Went down to the local sporting good store, and they had a spray. Don't know what it was, but I loved the idea that it left a bright orange stain on the person as well burning the daylights out of them.

[Defender]

Originally Posted by GlenJohnson

Few years ago, up north, wife and I had a gift shop. There was a thief running around town. Went down to the local sporting good store, and they had a spray. Don't know what it was, but I loved the idea that it left a bright orange stain on the person as well burning the daylights out of them.

Have you ever had to use it, Glen?