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Old 12-25-2013, 03:08 AM   #1
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Check this story in the local Indianapolis paper today.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2013/12/23/bystander-helped-foil-armored-car-heist-but-at-what-risk/4183293/

Pisses me off. The guy that helped should be a hero and instead it's, "Gee, I guess it's nice he helped but we'd prefer people don't. Cops can handle it. Citizens with guns, um, can't really trust them, they might hurt someone, and they confuse the police. Better leave it to the professionals".

What could have been a positive 'pro-gun' story was turned into something else. A story to try to sway the public that decent people with guns are bad and that we don't need them.
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Old 12-25-2013, 05:52 AM   #2
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The scariest part of the whole situation is when LEO rolled up and witnessed the supect pinned to the ground with a gun pulled on him. It could have easily taken a disastrous turn for the worse.
Also, I undertand protocol but did the innocent really have to be handcuffed and stuck in a car while police gathered enough info to asses the situation?
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:41 AM   #3
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Tough call, thwarting the attack and robbery was heroic and justified but chasing the perp with a gun in a public arena probably wasnt a great idea, chasing a dangerous person with a .22 isnt smart. I could care less if the perp gets wasted but everyone else needs to be kept in mind while first responding. Forgetting the safety is on is a rookie mistake, if he wasnt comfortable with using his weapon, it could have cost him his life or the lives of others, it sounds like he needs allot more SD training!

As far as the police handcuffing him, its harsh but probably good protocol until everyone knows whats going on. LEO's in cars covering giant districts dont get the chance to get to know the locals like the cop on the beat, all they know is what they see and anyone with a gun at a shooting could be dangerous. If your CCWing, you need to use some "Under Cover Cop" logic when showing your cards under duress, nobody but you knows your intentions and when TSHTF, everyone is a suspect.
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Old 12-25-2013, 12:45 PM   #4
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If you shoot someone in the back, especially if the target has done you no direct harm, it will likely not end well for the shooter. If the perp is advancing upon a third person, e.g. your spouse, family member, defenseless by-stander, then you may be cleared of criminal charges for shooting someone in the back.

Jeff better thank his lucky stars he forgot to take the safety off in this instance.
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:03 PM   #5
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It's just the overall 'vibe' of that article that bugs me. It could have been written ten different ways and they chose one that sucked.
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:20 PM   #6
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I'm glad no one was hurt too badly. The "good guy" is just dumb. Keep in mind this fellow is walking around, in public, with a firearm. He's more of a danger to everyone than the bad guy.
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Old 12-25-2013, 03:26 PM   #7
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I shoot more rounds per year than any cop in my town. I shoot more rounds per year than any county officer. I shoot more rounds per year than any city cop is required to do. I've taken Level 1, 2, and 3 handgun training at The Tactical Defense Institute in Ohio. I shoot IDPA. I shoot Steel Challenge. The idea that reporters have, that they try to pitch, that cops are expert shooters (better than any civilian) is laughable. And just because your job requires you to carry a gun doesn't mean that shooting is your hobby or your passion like it is for so many of us. And the idea that civilians should hide, step aside, and/or ignore active wrong doing is reprehensible to me.
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Old 12-25-2013, 03:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy36 View Post
I shoot more rounds per year than any cop in my town. I shoot more rounds per year than any county officer. I shoot more rounds per year than any city cop is required to do. I've taken Level 1, 2, and 3 handgun training at The Tactical Defense Institute in Ohio. I shoot IDPA. I shoot Steel Challenge. The idea that reporters have, that they try to pitch, that cops are expert shooters (better than any civilian) is laughable. And just because your job requires you to carry a gun doesn't mean that shooting is your hobby or your passion like it is for so many of us. And the idea that civilians should hide, step aside, and/or ignore active wrong doing is reprehensible to me.
I agree. The only really dumb thing, I think this guy did, was not re-holster his weapon once he had tackled and restrained the suspect. If the cops pull up and you've got a gun to someone's head, good guy or not, you may be shot by police. The cops don't restrain a suspect while they aim a gun at the suspects head. This citizen should have holstered his weapon once he detained the bad guy.
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:30 PM   #9
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Even off duty cops get handcuffed most of the time (unless someone on scene knows them well). That just comes with the territory. I was a victim of an assault a few years ago. I had the violator held down in my own driveway when the PD showed up. I wore handcuffs for about 5 minutes until they had it sorted out. Torn shirt and scratched face and all. I understood. When they told me I was bleeding, I said "I know. I want you to get your camera and take pictures. I am pressing charges." I wrote a victim statement that was probably more detailed and complete than their report. Never had to testify. Slam dunk. Prosecutors love good witnesses and good detailed statements.
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Old 12-25-2013, 11:06 PM   #10
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"Jeff" made a serious mistake by attempting to shoot a fleeing individual, who at the moment was not a threat to him or anyone else. He was extremely lucky to be incompetent with his carry weapon. One SNAFU cancelled out the other, so maybe he is not going to jail after all.

Whatever his intentions were, he showed both ignorance of the law and poor training. This is Exhibit A for the proponents of mandatory gun classes.
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