LEOs, your biggest concern when carrying. Not everyone is on the bad side. - Page 2
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:34 PM   #11
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Very good response. Thanks, Bighead.

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Old 01-31-2011, 05:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bighead View Post
First, with the level of scrutiny that police shootings come under, and the prevalence of civil litigation associated with any police shooting, no matter how justified, makes it unlikely you will encounter a "trigger happy" police officer.

In your first scenario, you incapacitate a suspect outside a business, and are concerned about a second suspect inside. At this point, I would retreat to cover, away from the point of entry to the business. If I could retreat an adequate distance with good cover, I would holster my firearm. In the circumstance that you're pinned behind a car in the parking lot, your attention is obviously going to be focused towards the business.

Body language and reactions speak volumes to responding officers. They don't just show up and start shooting anyone with a gun. What if you were an off-duty or plainclothes officer? Your focus towards the threat is the first indicator. Your response to police presence is another. My advice is to place your weapon on the ground and hold both hands with palms facing out.

If an officer challenges you, respond accordingly by announcing your victim status and making them aware of the continuing threat. "I am the victim. There is another bad guy inside the business." Do not expect the officers to immediately embrace you as a compatriot, you will most likely be treated as a potential danger until the situation is resolved, and you may be taken into custody.




The likelihood of a prolonged gun battle is low, so this scenario would most likely be played out before responding police were on scene. If other police are already arriving on the scene, I would say keep your gun holstered and direct responding officers to the suspect.

If you end up in the unlikely situation of engaging the suspect as police are arriving, you're rolling dice. The police are arriving to a force-on-force scenario where they do not know who the criminal is. Verbalizing might give you the edge, yelling "Stop! Get Back! Don't Move!" loudly and repeatedly, protesting the situation and again establishing yourself as the victim. After the action, follow police instructions and do not protest if they want to secure you. It is for their safety until they can determine what happened. You know you're the good guy, they still have to figure that out.



If you draw on the guy with the knife, normally I would encourage you to shoot the guy with the knife. This is very much like scenario two, just without the starting action. The officer driving up sees several people huddled together, sees one person shoved, and then sees both people presenting firearms. You is the bad guy? This is another one for loud verbalization. As you shove the robber, be yelling "Stop! Get Back!" Lets say you knock the suspect down, and he only has the knife, continue verbalizing "Don't move! Drop the knife!" If the action follows your scenario, yell "Stop! Drop the gun!" Now the officer sees things differently, with you protesting the action and establishing yourself as the victim.



Safety is not guaranteed, and tragically there have been situations where police officers have killed other police officers in the heat of action. It is not unreasonable to assume that you could be perceived as a threat and be fired upon by well intentioned police officers. As we've discussed, try to seek cover, and secure your weapon or place it safely on the ground when police arrive on the scene. If you're still in proximity to the action, hold your hands palms out in the universal surrender position. Make sure to verbalize in an attempt to establish yourself as the victim. Make sure you communicate with responding to police to alert them to any continuing threat. And don't take it personal if initially the police secure you at the scene, even witnesses get thrown in backseats behind the cage.
There isn't much I could add that Bighead hasn't already said.

I will add this, though: Just because I arrive on scene and somebody has a gun, it doesn't automatically make him the bad guy. Will I be suspicious? Of course, but just bc someone has a gun doesn't mean I'm going to shoot him. Bad guys usually won't stick around with guns drawn if they are in the wrong.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:00 PM   #13
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I agree with that Highspeed. I was just curious if there was any certain code of conduct like holster immediately, etc. I would say it is highly unlikely that it would ever happen.

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Old 02-06-2011, 11:29 AM   #14
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Excellent response Bighead. As an LEO who works plain clothes I will say the hardest thing for you to do is overcome the idea that you are the good guy. You will be challenged and given commands. FOLLOW THOSE COMMANDS and you'll come out all right. Don’t try to persuade LE you are the victim if they are confronting you. Wait until the situation has been diffused before making your case.

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Old 02-06-2011, 03:13 PM   #15
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My only complaint there is that "diffusement" usually comes with eating pavement, a knee in the back of your neck, and a bunch of confused screaming from officers...lol

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Old 02-06-2011, 08:06 PM   #16
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My only complaint there is that "diffusement" usually comes with eating pavement, a knee in the back of your neck, and a bunch of confused screaming from officers...lol
I understand where your coming from fastline, but I'd much rather eat pavement than be shot.
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:27 AM   #17
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Simple, at least for me if I'm defending myself and those that are more qualified show up my pistol is on the ground, my hands in plain sight and I express the situation. No need to have a responding LEO figure out if you are the good/bad guy, help him out, show him you are not a threat. I would rather take a hit from a bad guy than by a Leo doing his job and confused by my actions. MHO

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Old 02-07-2011, 02:32 AM   #18
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[sarcasm]That is why you need to get you a CCW badge, and wear it right next to your firearm, so they KNOW you are the good guy....[/sarcasm]

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Old 02-07-2011, 02:48 AM   #19
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Sarcasm is denoted by the use of a GREEN type face. For really unaware folks, you may also use ITALIC green print.Of course, some of us old farts are sarcastic most of the time......

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Old 02-07-2011, 11:16 AM   #20
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Sarcasm is denoted by the use of a GREEN type face. For really unaware folks, you may also use ITALIC green print.Of course, some of us old farts are sarcastic most of the time......
My bad
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