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-   -   Interesting scenario (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/interesting-scenario-44427/)

Kain 06-27-2011 11:46 PM

Interesting scenario
 
One of my instructors regaled us with a story of a call he ran recently that I thought bears repeating here.

A middle aged couple are sitting in their nice middle-class home one evening when they hear a commotion from elsewhere in the house. As the husband got up to go check it out, a disheveled man in his 50's wearing only his boxer shorts ran into the living room yelling "call 911" The intruder was empty handed and did not appear particularly threatening but also did not say anything else. The middle aged couple was very frightened and the husband grabbed his wife and ran into a bedroom and locked themselves in and called 911. They explained the situation to dispatch and a full spread was dispatched (Police, Fire, EMS)

At this point the instructor stopped and asked us what we would do in the situation of the couple? Or what we would do as the first responders? Keep your response in mind as you read the rest.

Police arrived to find the intruder standing between the couch and the wall looking somewhat unsteady. He seemed confused and mumbling to himself. He refused to comply with police commands to lay on the floor. As he was unarmed and did not appear threatening they chose not to taser him and instead just manually forced him into compliance. At this point Fire and EMS was allowed in to check out both the home owners and the intruder. The husband stated he would have shot the intruder, but the dispatcher told him to stay locked in the bedroom and wait unless the intruder attempted to enter the locked bedroom. The intruder when examined was fould to be a diabetic whose blood sugar had dropped to dangerous level causing a profoundly lowered level of consciousness. Upon application of D-50, the man became much more alert and stated that he did not remember breaking into the house or why he had stripped down. His clothes were found in the woods near the invaded home. The intruder was taken to the local ER and released while the husband was informed that had he shot the intruder he would likely have been charged with murder. No charges were filed, and the intruder stated he would replace the window he broke to gain enterance to the house as well as any other expenses incurred as a result of his actions.

Just some food for thought. Just because you "can" dosen't mean you should.

winds-of-change 06-27-2011 11:53 PM

I have not really thought out all scenarios for self defense. The thought scares the tar out of me right now as I have so much to learn. But I don't think I would have shot this person because he did not threaten my life and he did not appear armed. I would have hid as the homeowners did and waited for the next step. BUT I AM NOT SURE I TRUST MY JUDGMENT IN THESE SITUATIONS WHICH IS WHY EVEN IF I COULD CARRY, I WOULD NOT AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE. I would have had my gun at the ready, though.

I look forward to reading and learning from others more experienced than me and will graciously accept any corrections of my thought processes.

Dillinger 06-27-2011 11:57 PM

That's an interesting point you raise Kain, and I agree with your final thought.

In the scenario, merely breaking into the house in my situation would have had this poor bastard with two fur coated razor blades on his ass, so he probably would have been clearly identified as "not a threat" to me and mine.

Therefor I don't think further self defense action would have been required, but we would have called 911 in an attempt to get some assistance.

It's a good scenario and one that should be read by everyone here with their house in mind.

JD

rifleman1 06-28-2011 12:18 AM

as a first responder i would have suited up in my turnouts and be ready for a combative patient, in a dangerous situation like this we are usally given orders to stage near by until the sheriffs or chp show up.as a home owner and father/husband i would account for my family and then evaluate what my options are,like where are we in relation to where the exits are do we have to pass by this man,or is the man between me and my children or wife this would change my mindset all together.i would not want to shoot an unarmed man but there are a lot of variables in a situation like this.personally i think it would just depend on the circumstances that you find yourself in in the moment.what happen to these people is not exactly what would of happend in everyones home,just do to floor plans,what is between me and my family and safety.

Polygon 06-28-2011 12:26 AM

I'm not going to shoot someone that isn't armed with some sort of weapon. I know I said in the other thread that if someone breaks into my home they have the option to leave or be killed. If I wasn't given that option or they refused to leave I would kill them, without question. I really didn't take this kind of situation into account. From reading the first half I would not have made him out to be an immediate threat. He clearly wasn't armed. I would have done exactly what they did. Lock myself in a room and call 911.

Vincine 06-28-2011 12:45 AM

Grab my phone, grab my gun, slip out the window, call 911.

JonM 06-28-2011 03:43 AM

I deal with mentally unstable people in my daily work. It can be from birth defect brain damage substance abuse medication error etc. Ive leqrned over the years to recognize the signs. Mentally unstable can be under the right circumstance extremely violent and exceptionally even superhuman strong.

Having a firearm ready when dealing with a home invasion by someone under that effect is very wise.

The first step.in any home defense is calling 911 if possible. Assuming a defensive position until help arrivew is second. Last resort is deadly force.

ScottA 06-28-2011 03:52 AM

Excellent case study. It would be helpful to have more such scenarios to compare notes on how we would react.

Vincine 06-28-2011 12:10 PM

Iím reminded of the incident where an oriental student, I think Japanese, who was walking up to a house to ask for directions or something, was told to ĎFreezeí by the homeowner. Not being familiar with our culture and thinking ĎFreezeí just meant frozen water; he didnít understand he was being told to stop. He kept walking and was shot and killed by the home owner. I think the homeowner believed he was being threatened because of gang activity in the area, but Iím not sure.

Iím not in favor of overreaching gun restriction, but I am in favor of gun regulation. I think it would be a good thing if a level of gun education including a test of various scenarios like those above, or at the very least exposure to them, was required before someone received a handgun license. The first time one is presented with a situation like those above in real life, shouldnít be the first time someone has to think it through, especially considering all the stress a real life situation generates.

As I poke around the internet Iím finding lots of programs and courses providing training on how to handle and use firearms but precious little on when to use firearms, except perhaps for those concerning the legalities.

We require more training and education to be licensed to drive a car for christsakes and drivers only kill people by accident, usually. I know Iím looking for proper training, and I donít even have my license yet. I wouldnít mind if everybody who had a gun did.

winds-of-change 06-28-2011 12:25 PM

Vincine, I understand what you are saying but as an adult, I know what I have in my hands when I hold a gun and I know what it's potential is. It is my responsibility to think these things through. I have admitted I am not ready to carry a concealed weapon as I'm not sure I'm ready to have to kill a human being. I am over 21 and able to buy a weapon, I should be smart enough to know my limitations and mature enough to educate myself. What I have learned along the way is I would NOT shoot someone who was stealing my car, my tv, my computer, etc. Even a criminal's life is not worth possessions in my eyes. Yes, I have worked for those things I own but there are the police and insurance policies to cover those things. I would only shoot someone who meant me or my loved ones physical harm. The more detailed scenarios I have yet to really think through. Those who choose to not think these things through thoroughly will pay the price and suffer the consequences of being too eager to shoot someone. Just like any other situation in life. We all know not to drink and drive but those who choose to do it (and get caught) pay the price. That was their choice and it will certainly change the course of their life. It is up to each of us as individuals and gun owners to educate ourselves on how to handle that gun. It is not up to the government or rules and regulations to try to mandate that we follow a set of rules. Sometimes you just have to use your head and take responsibility for yourself, your actions and the choices you make.


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