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Old 08-22-2011, 01:37 AM   #51
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Lay low while being ever on guard.
Your first duty is to protect yourself.
As for the girl, she's a magnet for trouble.
Leave her and usual hauntings behind.
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:42 AM   #52
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Thx AZ lawman, I was Crim Justice major at CSULB and have many LE friends. The last thing I thought when I realized this guy was for real, was to be tough. I just want out. Luckily its been almost a month and no word. I'll stay vigilant but I'm hoping he's felt he "won" cuz I ran away. That's fine by me.

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Old 08-23-2011, 03:25 PM   #53
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Thx AZ lawman, I was Crim Justice major at CSULB and have many LE friends. The last thing I thought when I realized this guy was for real, was to be tough. I just want out. Luckily its been almost a month and no word. I'll stay vigilant but I'm hoping he's felt he "won" cuz I ran away. That's fine by me.
There's no loss in letting a d-bag think he's won...YOU sleep at night knowing YOU won, because YOU were smart enough not to buy into his crap, and didn't allow yourself to be put into a position of defending your "ego's honor". You were smarter still by avoiding he conflict and potential conflict. YOU WON. Sucks to be him.

Good show.
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:27 PM   #54
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I don't envy the pickle you're in. Remember that gang bangers have a code and history of retaliation for one of their own. Drive bye shootings are as common as parking tickets anymore. If I were in that no win situation, I would swallow my pride and move and/or live somewhere else until its' a bad memory. Stay condition yellow in your home and very dark yellow in public.

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Old 08-25-2011, 05:47 AM   #55
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Lots of good advice on here and some not so good advice I am afraid. First thing I would do is spend $100 and sit down with a security expert/bodyguard. You will learn more in that one hour than you could possibly hope to gather up on your own.

* Make yourself very small. Tiny. Unlisted phone numbers. Kill accounts on all social media as Facebook, Twitter, etc. Get yourself a different car if you can afford to (leasing is cheap enough). And so on.

* Be ever aware of your surroundings "keeping your head on a swivel" and act accordingly. Know situations to avoid. Sit with your back to the wall in restaurants and know your exits. Be invisible (i.e. don't sit at the window) and so on. If you are feeling uncomfortable, leave!

* Carry a firearm that is VERY easy to get at to get away a first accurate shot quickly if need be. Being stateside all the time there are choices in pocket sized firearms that we don't have when travelling back and forth from Canada as we have to remain Canada legal and that means BIG. I would, personally, choose a firearm that I can shoot well and in the largest caliber that I can shoot well and consider size and concealment. The HK P7M8 will fit a larger pocket and is a squeeze cocker and ultra safe. You can keep your hand on it without a holster in your pocket and shoot through your jacket if necessary, but I would also carry a more powerful caliber for effect. Personally, I have settled on .45ACP although .357 does have an attraction for penetrating metal doors and windshields if necessary.

* If you cannot avoid the fight (and avoiding the fight is the best route always) then shoot to stop the threat... and when questioned by LE your statement is simply "I was in fear of imminent grievous personal harm or death to myself or my loved ones and shot in self defense". Then state that you are not feeling well and want to be seen by a doctor at the hospital, after which you and your lawyer can make an appearance to answer any and all questions.

* If you are sure the threat is over (there may be more than one) IN A LOUD VOICE ask for bystanders to call 911, ask bystanders if they saw this guy's actions and if everyone is okay. When LE arrives insist the BG be arrested and handcuffed even if he is dead as a doornail. And THEN CALL 911 YOURSELF AND IMMEDIATELY UPON KNOWING THE THREAT IS OVER. For some reason the first to call 911 gets points. DO NOT be standing there holding a handgun when LE arrives - at the least your will have your face smooshed into the mud or pavement; at the worst... well, we won't go there.

* There is no law about shooting the BG in the side or back. Juries frown on it and you will be painted a demon. There is no law about not shooting to kill... but you can bet your ass that you will be painted a demon if you continue to unload your magazine once the threat is neutralized.

One of my best friends was the head of the fugitive recovery squad for a major LE agency and you can only imagine the number of BG's he racked up on his list of non-friends. Take some solace in the fact that even gangbangers have a small amount of intelligence (for the most part) and will avoid picking a fight with someone that will bring the wrath of god down upon them and their associates.

Take as much training in lethal force encounters as you are able to. When push comes to shove you have to be in the mindset, reflexively, to protect yourself without the least hesitation.

I know that I am, having survived one attempted carjacking in Orlando and one attempted home invasion in Toronto over the past 5 years. I can also assure you that after Orlando I was more than prepared and knew I had bad guys at my door before they had even climbed the steps to my porch. Had the cavalry not arrived in short order rest assured they would have left my property feet first as they were armed (guns in their hands) and I consider that sufficient cause to be in fear of grievous bodily harm or death.

Don't dwell on this but don't play the part of the potential victim either. Show strength in what you are doing.... and do what my friend George advised at 6'4" and about 250 pounds. He made himself very very small. Tiny. Almost invisible. Not only did it keep him out of trouble through his career it also aided him in apprehending some of the most heinous criminals on the loose - for which his reward was often a trip with them to take them back to where they came from, either jail or their own country's judicial system.

I often wondered why George drove a leased car and changed it every year or two. One day he told me exactly why. Don't drop your guard but don't fret day and night.

Be safe out there. And again, I strongly recommend that you sit down with a protective service or bodyguard and drop a hundred bucks to learn a whole lot more than you can learn online.

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:54 PM   #56
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There's no loss in letting a d-bag think he's won...YOU sleep at night knowing YOU won, because YOU were smart enough not to buy into his crap, and didn't allow yourself to be put into a position of defending your "ego's honor". You were smarter still by avoiding he conflict and potential conflict. YOU WON. Sucks to be him.

Good show.
Well said and well done

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Old 08-26-2011, 07:11 PM   #57
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So here's my question. Having a high likelihood of armed and multiple attackers coming for me, what is my best load-out option til this blows over? I have the following Glocks for consideration. G27,G23,G30,G19,G21.

I plan on carrying 2 at all times, but should I go for capacity (which is what I'm leaning towards cuz of multiple bad guys) or stopping power? Or just go 27/23 for synergy in caliber?

Crappy situation either way, advice welcome...
Your likely hood or not, the world will never be a safe place as long as the population remains and continues to grow. The best advice I can give you is, contact the Sheriffs Office of the county you reside in - The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.

Take a CCW class and fill in a CCW application and tell them your situation. If you are located in Nevada which is a shall issue state, you shouldn't have much of a problem if you are a law abiding citizen for obtaining the permit.

If you did this already, then I think there is absolutely no problem. It isn't like these people are hit-men for Al Capone.. I would highly doubt that one. They would scream if you shot a weezle at them.. if you think they wont then hit the range.. !
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:16 AM   #58
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Well, bud my choice would be the G23 .40 s&w with 13 rds. But choose which ever u are proficent with. Doesnt do much good if pull 45 out n can't hit the broad side of a barn

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Old 08-30-2011, 12:12 AM   #59
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Lots of good advice on here and some not so good advice I am afraid. First thing I would do is spend $100 and sit down with a security expert/bodyguard. You will learn more in that one hour than you could possibly hope to gather up on your own.

* Make yourself very small. Tiny. Unlisted phone numbers. Kill accounts on all social media as Facebook, Twitter, etc. Get yourself a different car if you can afford to (leasing is cheap enough). And so on.

* Be ever aware of your surroundings "keeping your head on a swivel" and act accordingly. Know situations to avoid. Sit with your back to the wall in restaurants and know your exits. Be invisible (i.e. don't sit at the window) and so on. If you are feeling uncomfortable, leave!

* Carry a firearm that is VERY easy to get at to get away a first accurate shot quickly if need be. Being stateside all the time there are choices in pocket sized firearms that we don't have when travelling back and forth from Canada as we have to remain Canada legal and that means BIG. I would, personally, choose a firearm that I can shoot well and in the largest caliber that I can shoot well and consider size and concealment. The HK P7M8 will fit a larger pocket and is a squeeze cocker and ultra safe. You can keep your hand on it without a holster in your pocket and shoot through your jacket if necessary, but I would also carry a more powerful caliber for effect. Personally, I have settled on .45ACP although .357 does have an attraction for penetrating metal doors and windshields if necessary.

* If you cannot avoid the fight (and avoiding the fight is the best route always) then shoot to stop the threat... and when questioned by LE your statement is simply "I was in fear of imminent grievous personal harm or death to myself or my loved ones and shot in self defense". Then state that you are not feeling well and want to be seen by a doctor at the hospital, after which you and your lawyer can make an appearance to answer any and all questions.

* If you are sure the threat is over (there may be more than one) IN A LOUD VOICE ask for bystanders to call 911, ask bystanders if they saw this guy's actions and if everyone is okay. When LE arrives insist the BG be arrested and handcuffed even if he is dead as a doornail. And THEN CALL 911 YOURSELF AND IMMEDIATELY UPON KNOWING THE THREAT IS OVER. For some reason the first to call 911 gets points. DO NOT be standing there holding a handgun when LE arrives - at the least your will have your face smooshed into the mud or pavement; at the worst... well, we won't go there.

* There is no law about shooting the BG in the side or back. Juries frown on it and you will be painted a demon. There is no law about not shooting to kill... but you can bet your ass that you will be painted a demon if you continue to unload your magazine once the threat is neutralized.

One of my best friends was the head of the fugitive recovery squad for a major LE agency and you can only imagine the number of BG's he racked up on his list of non-friends. Take some solace in the fact that even gangbangers have a small amount of intelligence (for the most part) and will avoid picking a fight with someone that will bring the wrath of god down upon them and their associates.

Take as much training in lethal force encounters as you are able to. When push comes to shove you have to be in the mindset, reflexively, to protect yourself without the least hesitation.

I know that I am, having survived one attempted carjacking in Orlando and one attempted home invasion in Toronto over the past 5 years. I can also assure you that after Orlando I was more than prepared and knew I had bad guys at my door before they had even climbed the steps to my porch. Had the cavalry not arrived in short order rest assured they would have left my property feet first as they were armed (guns in their hands) and I consider that sufficient cause to be in fear of grievous bodily harm or death.

Don't dwell on this but don't play the part of the potential victim either. Show strength in what you are doing.... and do what my friend George advised at 6'4" and about 250 pounds. He made himself very very small. Tiny. Almost invisible. Not only did it keep him out of trouble through his career it also aided him in apprehending some of the most heinous criminals on the loose - for which his reward was often a trip with them to take them back to where they came from, either jail or their own country's judicial system.

I often wondered why George drove a leased car and changed it every year or two. One day he told me exactly why. Don't drop your guard but don't fret day and night.

Be safe out there. And again, I strongly recommend that you sit down with a protective service or bodyguard and drop a hundred bucks to learn a whole lot more than you can learn online.
DO NOT, and I mean DO NOT start telling the responding officers you are in distress and NEED medical attention as a dodge to avoid talking to officers!

Yes, you WILL be shaken up. But unless you are truly in real physical distress, you just TOLD YOUR FIRST LIE to responding officers. This is a crime in and of itself, but it also just killed your credibility. Once a liar ALWAYS a liar. Next to the old "shoot 'em oustide and drag 'em inside" advice of 30 years ago...this is the WORST pile of crap advice I have ever heard.

Your DO have the right to say NOTHING. However, this will also lead to a trick bag. If you say NOTHING...you are failing to ppoint out witnesses, critical evidence, or even establishing yourself as "the victim who acted in self defense".

Your staement in totem should be very much like: "Officer, that man over there pulled (pick a deadly weapon), and said he was going to (pick deadly assault). I was FORCED TO FIRE IN SELF DEFENSE. He dropped the (insert weapon here), and it is lying (insert location). I am really shaken up right now, and I want to cooperate, but I want to wait until my attorney is present to advise me."

You have just told the unvarnished TRUTH. You have established yourself at the victim, and stated you were FORCED to shoot in self defense. You ARE shaken up. Trust me...you will be, and the responding officers KNOW you will be.

You have also stated you want to cooperate, but that you want your attorney present before you make further statements. You have just asserted your rights under the 5th Ammendment and THAT is a rock solid wall of protection against being "grilled or put through the ringer" as another poster claimed on another thread.

The truth is...we don't "grill people" or put them through the ringer. Not on scene anyway...that is the job for a detective or team of detectives hours later when one is in interrogation, and by then you WILL have your lawyer present.

But here's the big kicker....COPS aren't stupid. The responding officers WILL see what happened from the evidence, and if you start lying or BS-ing them, it wil go bad for you. Period. The suspect who winds up in the box is the one who has evidence pointing to him as the scumbag, and not the victim.

If you have witnesses...point them out to the responding officers.

Make damned sure you are heard to say things to the attacker such as: "STOP...I don't want to hurt you!" Or "STOP! Drop the weapon!" which is my personal favorite.

Don't say this because you expect them to comply...say it loudly so WITNESSES will hear you say it, and be able to truthfully tell officers that YOU did all you could to avoid the whole mess, and were IN FEAR OF AN IMMINENT and unavoidable attack.

After the incident (shooting) make sure as you scan for more threats you ask the witnesses if THEY are okay. It shows YOU have compassion and want to make sure they are okay, and haven't been hurt. You are not a MAN WITH A GUN, you are a MAN WHO HAD TO SHOOT SOMEONE BUT ONLY TO PROTECT HIMSELF AND OTHERS. It is key that any and all witnesses can testify to YOUR intent and ambiguous statments like "make my day" will cook you.

DO NOT lie to the officers and claim BS medical distress!

I have responded to dozens upon dozens of shootings during my career, and I can tell you....the guys who loses is the guy who lies.
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:57 AM   #60
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If you are not messed up and in need of some physical examination after a lethal force encounter you are a better man than I am. I can assure you that I am going to want to be checked over and I will not be feeling well after putting several rounds in somebody's son, daughter, brother, whatever. If you can gather your thoughts for a pleasant conversation you are a far better man than I as well. I will be puking my guts, my ears will be ringing from letting off one or more .45's without ear protection and likely a host of other physical effects that I really don't think need to be discussed. Yep, I want the paramedics to check me out, I want time to settle down and gather my thoughts, I want counsel and that about sums it up. The basics of the encounter I will gladly repeat, but after that I want time to stop listening to my heart thumping and get my pants cleaned out. Fight or flight. You are absolutely right, though, in that being branded a liar is something you do not wish to do at any time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman View Post
DO NOT, and I mean DO NOT start telling the responding officers you are in distress and NEED medical attention as a dodge to avoid talking to officers!

Yes, you WILL be shaken up. But unless you are truly in real physical distress, you just TOLD YOUR FIRST LIE to responding officers. This is a crime in and of itself, but it also just killed your credibility. Once a liar ALWAYS a liar. Next to the old "shoot 'em oustide and drag 'em inside" advice of 30 years ago...this is the WORST pile of crap advice I have ever heard.

Your DO have the right to say NOTHING. However, this will also lead to a trick bag. If you say NOTHING...you are failing to ppoint out witnesses, critical evidence, or even establishing yourself as "the victim who acted in self defense".

Your staement in totem should be very much like: "Officer, that man over there pulled (pick a deadly weapon), and said he was going to (pick deadly assault). I was FORCED TO FIRE IN SELF DEFENSE. He dropped the (insert weapon here), and it is lying (insert location). I am really shaken up right now, and I want to cooperate, but I want to wait until my attorney is present to advise me."

You have just told the unvarnished TRUTH. You have established yourself at the victim, and stated you were FORCED to shoot in self defense. You ARE shaken up. Trust me...you will be, and the responding officers KNOW you will be.

You have also stated you want to cooperate, but that you want your attorney present before you make further statements. You have just asserted your rights under the 5th Ammendment and THAT is a rock solid wall of protection against being "grilled or put through the ringer" as another poster claimed on another thread.

The truth is...we don't "grill people" or put them through the ringer. Not on scene anyway...that is the job for a detective or team of detectives hours later when one is in interrogation, and by then you WILL have your lawyer present.

But here's the big kicker....COPS aren't stupid. The responding officers WILL see what happened from the evidence, and if you start lying or BS-ing them, it wil go bad for you. Period. The suspect who winds up in the box is the one who has evidence pointing to him as the scumbag, and not the victim.

If you have witnesses...point them out to the responding officers.

Make damned sure you are heard to say things to the attacker such as: "STOP...I don't want to hurt you!" Or "STOP! Drop the weapon!" which is my personal favorite.

Don't say this because you expect them to comply...say it loudly so WITNESSES will hear you say it, and be able to truthfully tell officers that YOU did all you could to avoid the whole mess, and were IN FEAR OF AN IMMINENT and unavoidable attack.

After the incident (shooting) make sure as you scan for more threats you ask the witnesses if THEY are okay. It shows YOU have compassion and want to make sure they are okay, and haven't been hurt. You are not a MAN WITH A GUN, you are a MAN WHO HAD TO SHOOT SOMEONE BUT ONLY TO PROTECT HIMSELF AND OTHERS. It is key that any and all witnesses can testify to YOUR intent and ambiguous statments like "make my day" will cook you.

DO NOT lie to the officers and claim BS medical distress!

I have responded to dozens upon dozens of shootings during my career, and I can tell you....the guys who loses is the guy who lies.
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