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-   -   Immediately Post SHTF Question (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/immediately-post-shtf-question-47492/)

BigByrd47119 08-29-2011 09:33 AM

Immediately Post SHTF Question
 
Here is something I have been wondering about. I may be way off and feel free to let me know if I am, but here goes...

Immediately following your deployment of your concealed firearm in defense of your life, what do you do? It is my understanding that in "theory," LEO's are supposed to provide medical attention if possible after making proper notifications. Does this same process seem a reasonable thing for a civilian?

Of course if your not a LEO its hard to expect someone to respond like one. But would it reflect positively on you to provide CPR in this situation or would it make it appear that perhaps you weren't that distressed over the situation?

I'm not suggesting that in a life-or-death situation I would be able to function in that manner, but I thought it would be worth asking everyone's take.

Thoughts? Opinions? Shut-up ;)?

pagj17 08-29-2011 09:43 AM

If I've shot the guy and he's still breathing, I'll provide the medical attention that I can. If they're dead they'll have to stay that way though.

HOSSFLY 08-29-2011 11:16 AM

If you have to shoot somebody the proper thing to do is make sure hes dead -

Gatoragn 08-29-2011 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigByrd47119 (Post 571404)
Here is something I have been wondering about. I may be way off and feel free to let me know if I am, but here goes...

Immediately following your deployment of your concealed firearm in defense of your life, what do you do? It is my understanding that in "theory," LEO's are supposed to provide medical attention if possible after making proper notifications. Does this same process seem a reasonable thing for a civilian?

Of course if your not a LEO its hard to expect someone to respond like one. But would it reflect positively on you to provide CPR in this situation or would it make it appear that perhaps you weren't that distressed over the situation?

I'm not suggesting that in a life-or-death situation I would be able to function in that manner, but I thought it would be worth asking everyone's take.

Thoughts? Opinions? Shut-up ;)?

Read this: http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/read-before-you-decide-carry-11962/

robocop10mm 08-29-2011 11:20 AM

Unless you are certified in some sort of first aid/CPR there is not much you can be expected to do except CALL! Call 911 to get the help on the way. You shot the individual, not to kill but A) to live. And B) to stop. You succeeded. CONGRATULATIONS! Summon the aid he may need.

c3shooter 08-29-2011 11:26 AM

Robo ia absolutely X ring in this one. As far as the "make sure he is dead" school of thought, once the threat has passed, further actions that you take will be viewed in a different light- by a jury.

Ask the pharmacist that reloaded and shot the unconcious robber lying on the floor.

ArizonaLawman 08-29-2011 11:27 AM

Step 1: End the threat.

Step 2: Assess if the threat has actually ended (no other attackers or potential attackers).

Step 3: Call 911 (Ask for police AND ambulance EVEN if you believe the subject to be dead, this shows compassionate action even to someone who placed you in IMMEDIATE AND OTHERWISE UNAVOIDABLE DANGER OF DEATH OR GRAVE BODILY HARM)

Step 4: Identify witnesses IF there are any.

Step 5: Take steps to locate and secure the attacker's weapon WITHOUT touching it. If you have to kick it away from the downed attacker's hand, do so, but only far enough to be out of their reach, yet where YOU can retain total control of that weapon.

Step 6: Ask the witnesses if THEY are okay. This is of paramount importance as YOU need to be seen as the good guy at this point! Typically while you are scanning for additional threats, you should be asking "Are you okay?". Let's face it, you are a person whom they have just seen gun down another human being. You want their impression of you to be as that of "Guy In White Hat". Asking if they are okay cannot be construed in any negative light. You are STILL holding a deadly weapon, at the ready, and you do NOT want them to feel threatened by you or your gun in ANY way! You want them to feel as though YOU are still "protecting them too".

Step 7: Render aid as you are able, however, do so ONLY if you can do so in total safety to yourself or bystanders. The reality is, you have already summoned QUALIFIED medical help, unless you are a doctor, trauma trained nurse, EMT, or Boy Scout First Aid badge recipient, a case could be made that you acted negligently in your botched efforts at first aid (yeah I know, but it has been made an issue in court before).

When officers arrive on scene, make sure you COMPLY with all their instructions and I mean RIGHT NOW! Even if you find yourself in cuffs and stuffed into a cruiser. BE COMPLIANT. Make sure you cooperate JUST ENOUGH to show YOU as the victim, then HUSH.

"Officer...that man over there pulled a knife/gun/bat/whatever weapon, and tried to stab/shoot/bludgeon me to death. I was FORCED TO FIRE IN SELF DEFENSE. I want to cooperate fully, but I am really shaken up right now, and I don't think I should say any more until I have an attorney here to advise me."

I have read where someone suggested that you ask for medical assistance for yourself by feigning chest pains or other distress to avoid talking to officers...this is complete hogwash and BAD BAD BAD advice. When you get to the ER and the doc finds you are physically fine, though shaken, you have just TOLD YOUR FIRST LIE during an investigation. Oh by the way...that is OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, and LYING TO AN OFFICER, and once a liar, always a liar. You will NEVER get your credibility back.

By simply telling the officer you are shaken, which you WILL be, I know this because I had to tell brother officers this during a line of duty shooting and it WAS TRUE, and that you want to excercise your right to have your attorney present to avoid making any mistakes, you are not in any way compromising your position as an honest actor in a bad situation.

Hopefully you will never have to go through it. Remember, cops with ANY street smarts and experience WILL see through BS. Don't BS them.

Yunus 08-29-2011 11:29 AM

I would think contacting 911 is the FIRST thing you do. They might direct you to provide some sort of care but contacting 911 is more important IMO. When you call 911 you are helping to prove that you are on the right side of the law and it was not a murder you just committed.

ArizonaLawman 08-29-2011 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunus (Post 571425)
I would think contacting 911 is the FIRST thing you do. They might direct you to provide some sort of care but contacting 911 is more important IMO. When you call 911 you are helping to prove that you are on the right side of the law and it was not a murder you just committed.

Well...yeah-ish...calling 911 is step 3 in the use of force continuum. You must end the threat, and make sure it is ended before you can safely call 911. I know it is nitpicky...but in all reality...stuff like this comes down to nitpicks...that what lawyers are, paid nitpickers.

You are under no obligation to compromise your safety further by rendering aid if you can't do so safely, and if other threats persist, you can't do it. By calling 911 and summoning help, you have actually done all you can REASONABLY be expected to do. It would be great if you COULD do something to help, but you may not be able to.

I would render aid as I was able to, but that is an on the spot decision.

BigByrd47119 08-29-2011 12:11 PM

Wow, thanks for all the replies!

So allow me to refine a bit here.

1. I am CPR/ First-Aid certified
2. Would you personally feel a moral obligation to provide medical treatment to the best of your ability if the opportunity presented itself within the confines of this general scenario?
3. Any forseeable legal ramifications going either way?

I appreciate everyones input and advise. I am well awair of what is typically accepted protocol in these situations, which is why I thought this may be an interesting variable.


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