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I think concealed should be concealed.


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Old 08-04-2012, 04:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by P_town View Post
In my opinion that was concealed. This shirt was over it was it not? And not everyone you see in public is looking for guns on everyone's hip. Some of y'all paranoid people may but I carry my gun so I can enjoy myself at times And feel safe while having fun with the people in with. And not mention the girls haha. Some of us like to dress nice for the ladies and sorry guys but baggy loose shirts dont cut it. If I'm printing oh well, as long as its still in my pants I don't care
There are enough holsters of many different types, that you can find something that covers well with any style of dress. Part of the issue that people will dump big money into a nice handgun, then buy some flimsy cheap holster. It's like the guy that has $1000 suits, $300 shoes, $100 ties (etc) and wears a $10 plastic Timex watch.
It ain't right.

One really nice holster isn't enough either. Different occasions require different types of holsters (including cheap flimsy ones).

Having a variety of holsters is a Good Thing.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmac

There are enough holsters of many different types, that you can find something that covers well with any style of dress. Part of the issue that people will dump big money into a nice handgun, then buy some flimsy cheap holster. It's like the guy that has $1000 suits, $300 shoes, $100 ties (etc) and wears a $10 plastic Timex watch.
It ain't right.

One really nice holster isn't enough either. Different occasions require different types of holsters (including cheap flimsy ones).

Having a variety of holsters is a Good Thing.
What if you're the guy who is buying a gun for protection, and you have money for ONE gun, ONE holster, ONE set/size of clothes, etc.

I try not to judge people based on their gear choice, as it may well be what they can afford.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:36 PM   #23
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I've said this before but I wouldn't mind open carry by everyone everywhere. I don't get my panties in a twist at the first sign of a gun - open or printing. Why hide the fact that you are capable of defending yourself?

might be that if more and more people open carried criminals would skulk back into the back alleys and gutter where they belong
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:32 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Longrange View Post
Here in florida, I always wear a cover garment. The law reads that it is the officers discretion as to whether that could be brandishing. Too many liberal leo's here to take the chance. IWB I can easily cover with a t shirt, when I cant, I dont want anyone tk know.
No such thing as brandishing in Florida. There is "Improper exhibition of a firearm."
http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/Improper-Exhibition-Firearm-Weapon.html
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Improper Exhibition Of A Firearm Or Oher Weapon
Improper exhibition of a firearm and or improper display of a weapon are crimes governed by Florida Statute 790.10. This statute is officially titled as "improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms", and the statute states that "if any person having or carrying any . . . weapon shall, in the presence of one or more (other) persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree".

The offense owes its roots to the common law crime of "brandishing". The case law on this crime is rather sparse, and what type of conduct the statute exactly prohibits is not made very clear by the wording of the statute, either. It is usually applied as a “lesser” of aggravated assault, and leaves the possibility of an aggravated assault being “plea bargained” down to this significantly lower crime. However, it can also be charged because a person displayed a firearm so carelessly that other persons in the immediate vicinity reasonably believed they might get accidentally shot, or displayed a weapon in a manner that was blatantly offensive to most reasonable people. From a defensive standpoint, what you should know about this crime is that whether you violate it or not will be determined on an "objective" basis rather a "subjective" basis. That is: would a reasonable person viewing your actions with the gun or other weapon consider such display as being done in an unreasonably offensive manner, or being done in a manner that creates an unreasonable risk of injury to other persons or property? If it doesn’t meet these qualifications – it shouldn’t constitute the crime. Likewise, use of a gun or other weapon in lawful self-defense is also a defense to the charge

As a criminal lawyer who has handled quite a few gun and weapon related charges – I’d repeat that the statute is most often applied as a lesser and/or alternate charge to aggravated assault. Where improper exhibition stops and aggravated assault begins is often a question that Florida case law states -- only a jury can answer. Thus, if I am representing a client in a gun crime situation where the charge is aggravated assault – I’ll almost always suggest that a plea to an amended or lesser charge of "improper exhibition" is a smart way to resolve the case if that's possible. It’s very difficult to complain that you plead to a misdemeanor when the alternative was to take a chance on going to trial on a felony that carries a three year mandatory minimum prison sentence if you lose.


That is in regards to either holding a gun an a threatening manner or possible lifting the shirt to expose the gun in a threatening manner. If your cover garment "momentarily" exposes the gun, you are safe because of Florida's new pathetic open carry law. Having the gun exposed constantly is open carry and that is illegal. Nowhere in any of this is printing. "Concealed is concealed", blah blah blah. Its sloppy and lazy, but not illegal.

From his online blog that I post two years ago:
Quote:
Wednesday, November 3, 2010
Another firearm "printing" question

This seems to be the year for questions about "printing" of firearms. And, as you've guessed . . . yet another such exciting question:

Question: A casual acquaintance has tried to insist that if one is "printing", then the firearm is not considered concealed. I find that somewhat preposterous, and I didn't see anything in your book or the Florida statutes that would clarify this. Who is right?

Answer: I am right -- you are mostly right -- he is not totally wrong, but far from correct. My response is that momentary printing is not a crime, and is not "open carry". Carry in Florida is either "open carry" per 790.053, or "concealed carry" per 790.01. If you can think of a third possibility -- email me quick, cause I gotta hear that one. Anyway -- to be "open carry" it must be obvious to the casual observer as a firearm (ie: anyone would realize immediately it's a firearm)-- and you (the person carrying it) must know it is so displayed. It can't be accidental -- that would be a "lack of scienter". The 7th edition goes into this, but that comes out in December 2010. On the other hand, I guess, if you're wearing a see-thru shirt -- my answer would be different. If that's your third possibility -- don't email. Just take a couple of Tylenol -- cause you've been thinking way too much.

Hope that helps.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:47 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Chandler51 View Post
What if you're the guy who is buying a gun for protection, and you have money for ONE gun, ONE holster, ONE set/size of clothes, etc.

I try not to judge people based on their gear choice, as it may well be what they can afford.
I'm not judging anyone, and I agree on people should get what they can, with the proper emphasis on the components of the "system."

If you have x amount of cash, and you blow it all on the gun (no holster, no practice / break-in ammo, etc), that's not a smart thing to do. There seems to be a number of new gunners here that focus on the gun without considering everything else that goes with it (including professional training, or a talk with a lawyer over potential local legal issues).

It falls under "plan ahead;" maybe a person can afford the latest greatest Banana 5000 Uber-Super-Blaster ... but if they can't carry it well, and they can't practice with it, or buy responsible ammo, cleaning supplies and all the rest ... perhaps they should settle for a similar used piece, or something "less cool" until they can afford to get the whole package.

When shopping for the gun, since you know how you'd like to carry it, also shop around to see what the holster options are for that option. Check out the ammunition costs (especially self-defense ammo, which tends to be much more expensive).

There's more to guns than guns, and it's hard to beat a good holster for long-term comfort and good conceal-ability.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:46 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmac

I'm not judging anyone, and I agree on people should get what they can, with the proper emphasis on the components of the "system."

If you have x amount of cash, and you blow it all on the gun (no holster, no practice / break-in ammo, etc), that's not a smart thing to do. There seems to be a number of new gunners here that focus on the gun without considering everything else that goes with it (including professional training, or a talk with a lawyer over potential local legal issues).

It falls under "plan ahead;" maybe a person can afford the latest greatest Banana 5000 Uber-Super-Blaster ... but if they can't carry it well, and they can't practice with it, or buy responsible ammo, cleaning supplies and all the rest ... perhaps they should settle for a similar used piece, or something "less cool" until they can afford to get the whole package.

When shopping for the gun, since you know how you'd like to carry it, also shop around to see what the holster options are for that option. Check out the ammunition costs (especially self-defense ammo, which tends to be much more expensive).

There's more to guns than guns, and it's hard to beat a good holster for long-term comfort and good conceal-ability.
I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying is that a guy who wants the legally afforded protection of a firearm, and chooses to carry it, may not have more than a pawn shop and uncle mikes budget.

In a perfect world, we would all have time to train every week. But it's expensive as well.
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandler51

I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying is that a guy who wants the legally afforded protection of a firearm, and chooses to carry it, may not have more than a pawn shop and uncle mikes budget.

In a perfect world, we would all have time to train every week. But it's expensive as well.
I agree with that, not everyone can afford to go out every weekend and empty 5 or 6 hundred cartidges and buy 6 different holsters for each pistol owned. I have two pistols that I carry depending on my mood or clothing. I have a blackhawk serpa for my 1911 and an uncle mikes iwb for my bersa .380. Yes I do print sometimes but it can't always be avoided, but since the laws here in Indiana are very progun its not really something I worry about. Im not trying to prove anything or try to show off I'm just protecting myself and my family while trying to stay comfortable. I've also tried to carry iwb but since I'm a thin and rather boney guy, 6' tall and 170 lbs, its too painful to deal with. I'd also have to clean my gun everytime I came home because the sweat would cause rusting.
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:52 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragunovsks

I agree with that, not everyone can afford to go out every weekend and empty 5 or 6 hundred cartidges and buy 6 different holsters for each pistol owned. I have two pistols that I carry depending on my mood or clothing. I have a blackhawk serpa for my 1911 and an uncle mikes iwb for my bersa .380. Yes I do print sometimes but it can't always be avoided, but since the laws here in Indiana are very progun its not really something I worry about. Im not trying to prove anything or try to show off I'm just protecting myself and my family while trying to stay comfortable. I've also tried to carry iwb but since I'm a thin and rather boney guy, 6' tall and 170 lbs, its too painful to deal with. I'd also have to clean my gun everytime I came home because the sweat would cause rusting.
Yes, this is what I'm getting at.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:32 AM   #29
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I wish some of these people were as concerned about these ridiculous gun laws that make you have to hide the gun as they are about hiding it.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:30 PM   #30
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Personally I don't want anyone to know I'm carrying. If god forbid I'm in a situation that forces me to use my ccw I want the extra half second the element of surprise gives me.

I don't carry to make a political statement, I do it to protect myself and my family.
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