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Old 09-23-2011, 09:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by trip286 View Post
Dunerunner, I ran into a guy at the local Wallyworld and I couldn't help but giggle a bit. This guy was way taller than me and I'm 6 foot even, but he was freakin built. I mean he looked like he could stand a chance against Ahnold in the body builder contests when he was in his prime. And on his hip (barely covered by his shirt tail) with a license holder showing his permit, was the cutest tinyest little gun, about the size of a JA .22. The license was bigger than the gun!

It wasn't you was it?
No trip..ha! I don't usually frequent Wally World unless the wife drags me there and my prefered carry piece is my Colt Government .45APC either IWB or in winter my shoulder rig.

Sorry......
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:21 PM   #32
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This one is a little difficult for me to answer from the standpoint that I normally do not open carry. However, in this situation if he had already struck me, I would try to put some distance between us before another attack and try at the same time to diffuse the situation verbally if possible. I do not believe I would have threatened to "shoot" him. If unable to diffuse the BG then I try to leave the area as quickly as possible (run like H____!) if leaving is not an option then little choice is left but to try to beat him more violently than he was trying to do to me. All of this is assuming that my survey of the area had not detected others that would have been likely to come to his assistance. If others were detected then the whole scene changes and the firearm becomes a tool to bring into play.
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:28 PM   #33
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The guy tht was open carrying made his first and biggest mistake by threatening to shoot the other guy from the get go.. Tht tells people right then tht this guy is willing to shoot someone over any little thing.. Even if he would have fired his gun in wat he thought was defending himself, he still would have been labeled as the attacker because he showed behavior of looking for a reason to shoot someone
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Old 09-23-2011, 09:33 PM   #34
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The guy tht was open carrying made his first and biggest mistake by threatening to shoot the other guy from the get go.. Tht tells people right then tht this guy is willing to shoot someone over any little thing.. Even if he would have fired his gun in wat he thought was defending himself, he still would have been labeled as the attacker because he showed behavior of looking for a reason to shoot someone
I noticed this too, and none of us mentioned it. we're slacking.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:49 PM   #35
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I think that the back story does play a minor part in this. If I were to instigate the altercation or escalate it and I used deadly force, then I would be criminally held accountable. Anytime I am carrying I am extremely cautious about my temper and my action because the law is not usually in favor of the person carrying.

That being said: I would try to deescalate the situation and walk away if possible. My ego isn't fragile enough to fight for. If it came to a fist fight I would defend myself in kind, but if he made a motion for my firearm I would pull it and hope he listened to reason instead of making me shoot. That is why I like concealed carry better because open carry gives them a target to get the upper hand. I would rather them not know I am armed and only pull it if the situation escalated to a level I couldn't handle.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:05 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ArizonaLawman View Post
Here's one for thought:

At a Circle K (convenience store chain) two knuckleheads were "wolfing" at one another. One happened to be open carrying, what appeared to be, a Witness 9mm or 40 in a nylon OWB holster.

I came through the door at the tail end of this, so I do NOT know what precipitated their bruhaha, other than they BOTH looked and acted very much like douchebags.

I heard one say..."If you hit me (expletive deleted) I am gonna (expleteive deleted) shoot you!"

Now....BOTH were within an inch of one another in height, and within a few pounds of one another...pretty well matched physically.

So....knowing that I know the law on this....I am just curious what some opinions are from the members here. It is just a curiosity thing on my part to find out what the spectrum of answers I will get.

The question is: Someone relatiely equally matched with you physically hits you. In your own words, and supporting WHY you will choose your SD option, tell me what you would do.

Shoot
Hit
Run
Stab
Tase
Draw eapon as I am backpedaling as fast as is possible, all the time warning LOUDLY:

1) Leave me alone or I will fire!

If he continues to pursue, keep backing up and keep repeating the warning.

If he gets close enough to pose immediate threat and will not stop, fire for the chest.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:14 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bountyhunter
Draw eapon as I am backpedaling as fast as is possible, all the time warning LOUDLY:

1) Leave me alone or I will fire!

If he continues to pursue, keep backing up and keep repeating the warning.

If he gets close enough to pose immediate threat and will not stop, fire for the chest.
And after doing tht the next thing you will hear is ur miranda warning... Just because a person hits you, you CANNOT immediately escilate to deadly force..your life is not in immediate danger. Fight back if u can, run if u have to but u cant shoot the guy.Ur just asking to be arrested
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:47 AM   #38
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I think the point that was missed is in this situation you are a third party. Two guys are in eachother's face one is OC and you just walked in to the mini mart seeing this happen. This is an "A"-"B" issue so "C" your way out of it. You don't know what happened before you walked in the door. Best you can do is observe and report, might be even better to step out and call 911. At this point as you have no data to express who is the good or bad guy. Niether are a threat to you and interjecting into the event could make you a hero or a zero in a second. It should be a simple understanding in life...understand a situation before put yourself in the middle of it.

If asking what would you do being one of the two in the conflict, there simply isn't enough information to first know if I am the guy OC or the other guy, if the other guy is enough of a threat to use deadly force or if the other guy is a douche I can just tell to eff off and walk away with out issue. Walk away is always the best way to go. Why the hell are your conflicting with someone at a mini mart? Far more important things to be concerned with than bumping heads with someone at a mini mart.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:15 AM   #39
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Unless u leave ur house everyday looking for trouble u dont pick where u will encounter a BG. You are right saying tht u have better things to do other than argue with some POS at a mini mart, but do u think tht they give a damn. If a BG is hell bent on fatally injuring u, u can say " leave me alone,im at a mini mart and i have better things to do!" but they arent known for being considerate. U just may not have the option to walk away.... Even at a mini mart
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:29 AM   #40
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How many times has an azz whoopin turned into attempted murder or the death of the wooped because the woopee didn't know when to stop.
That's what I was thinking. I've seen "no weapons" fights still ending with destroyed facial bones lying in large pools of blood.

Still, in this situation, I'd do everything I could do get away from the guy, again even if it meant running. Though, I'm not at all the shouting-match type of guy. In the past I've either stayed calm enough that the situation resolved itself quickly, or I've taken action early on to start myself off with the upper hand. A quick punch to the nose or a kick to the chin when they aren't expecting it can turn the tides if you don't think you can avoid violence.

I've always wondered about someone having to use the argument "Your Honor, I had to shoot him because I was afraid he was going to take my weapon and use it on me." To an anti-gun person, that would sound exactly like "simply having a weapon put me in a situation where I was forced to use it," which would paint you in a negative light (either someone who isn't prepared for the responsibilities of carrying, or as a vigilante-type guy). Even though that argument might work for police, I don't know if it would fly for civilians.

But, I wouldn't be afraid to draw if it came down to it. Especially in a gun-friendly state, I think it would be easy to justify with a statement like this:
"My attacker clearly saw I was armed, and still persisted. For my own safety, I had to assume he was thus either armed as well, or had friends nearby that would have joined against me should the situation have escalated."


*edit*


If I misunderstood your scenario and you are speaking as an outside observer of a two-person verbal conflict between two equally-sized men, the absolute last thing you want to do is get involved. If it is a 100lb woman and a 200lb man, yes I think a good thing to do would be to ask him to leave the lady alone (and he might turn around and say "well she just slashed my tires because I got in front of her at the gas pump," in which case you can just let it sort itself out :P ). Also, if one guy is on the ground unconscious and the other is still beating him, I think it would be appropriate to try to stop the violence, though drawing would not be the first step.

Last edited by Lindenwood; 09-24-2011 at 02:32 AM.
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