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Old 12-29-2009, 10:53 PM   #11
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In Texas, we can shoot an intruder in the house or on your property. So if someone's trying to steal your car or your wheels, as long as it's on your property, you can protect it.

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Old 12-29-2009, 10:57 PM   #12
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In Texas, we can shoot an intruder in the house or on your property. So if someone's trying to steal your car or your wheels, as long as it's on your property, you can protect it.
I believe we can shoot and kill anyone who breaks into the house whether they are armed or not-but we can't shoot them if they are simply on our property,unless they are attacking you.I heard a story on the news a few months ago where someone shot someone outside thier house because the dude was trying to set his house on fire-no consequences from that,that I know of.Alot of crazy stuff happens here in Michigan,espacially in Saginaw,Flint and Detroit.
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Old 12-29-2009, 11:15 PM   #13
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I guess I should not complain about not getting my pistol carry permit,because I can own whatever firearms I want and use them on my property for defense.
I can own a variety of firearms depending on how much time and money I'm prepared to invest. Rifles deemed to be "sporting" and shotguns are permitted on my current licence. If I joined a pistol club, fulfilled the right criteria and bought the right safe and carry case, I could upgrade to a pistol licence and apply to buy any pistol for which I can furnish a suitable reason for wanting. If I shelled out enough money on a rifle safe and admin fees, I could get a Military Style SemiAuto endorsement that would entitle me to buy firearms such as the AK-47, M16 and other guns that are restricted "because they look scary". A lot more money, checks and applications and I could get a collector's licence that would allow me to apply to purchase anything - pistols, submachineguns, even GPMGs and mortars (but I would not be allowed to fire them at all).

Getting
the things is a matter of a clean record and expensive stuff/applications. Using them for self-defence has been legally upheld in court cases but the legal storage requirements are such that the firearms and ammunition are likely to be separately locked away when someone breaks in brandishing a shotgun - not a lot of use for self-defence in that state...

Air and CO2 rifles and pistols are permitted without a licence if you're over 18 - but they're not a lot of use, either.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:08 AM   #14
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I can own a variety of firearms depending on how much time and money I'm prepared to invest. Rifles deemed to be "sporting" and shotguns are permitted on my current licence. If I joined a pistol club, fulfilled the right criteria and bought the right safe and carry case, I could upgrade to a pistol licence and apply to buy any pistol for which I can furnish a suitable reason for wanting. If I shelled out enough money on a rifle safe and admin fees, I could get a Military Style SemiAuto endorsement that would entitle me to buy firearms such as the AK-47, M16 and other guns that are restricted "because they look scary". A lot more money, checks and applications and I could get a collector's licence that would allow me to apply to purchase anything - pistols, submachineguns, even GPMGs and mortars (but I would not be allowed to fire them at all).

Getting
the things is a matter of a clean record and expensive stuff/applications. Using them for self-defence has been legally upheld in court cases but the legal storage requirements are such that the firearms and ammunition are likely to be separately locked away when someone breaks in brandishing a shotgun - not a lot of use for self-defence in that state...

Air and CO2 rifles and pistols are permitted without a licence if you're over 18 - but they're not a lot of use, either.
Here in the state on Michigan USA all long guns,rifles or shotgun can be sold without a permit at age 18.A pistol must be purchased through a pistol permit,and as long as you aren't a criminal or mental incapable,you will have your permit within 10 minutes of applying.Must be 18 to buy a handgun or long gun from an individual-but must be 21 to buy a handgun from a dealer.On a funny note-pellet pistols require a pistol permit as if it were the same as a .357-it's stupid.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:58 AM   #15
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Stupid laws abound - usually due to stupid politicians.

I should clarify my earlier post: the MSSA endorsement is for semiauto versions only, such as the semiautomatic Norinco AK-47 clone, semiauto variants on the M16 style, L1A1 (semiauto version of the FAL) - any semiauto that has one or more of the following:

Free standing pistol grip (which our benighted Commissioner of Police is trying to unlawfully reinterpret to include hole-through stocks - a pox on him and his family)
Bayonet lug
Flash suppressor
"High capacity" magazine (> 7 rounds centrefire or > 15 rounds .22 rimfire)

So an L1A1 with its 20-round mag, flash suppressor and free standing pistol grip is definitely a Military Style Semi Automatic, and therefore needs more restrictions than a 4-shot .308 semiautomatic rifle with Monte Carlo stock.

Because we all know that scary-looking weapons are more deadly than "normal" weapons, eh.

The MSSA endorsement ("Category E") allows you to fire those semiautos.

To legally own the fully auto versions of the above, you need a collector's endorsement ("Category C") - which entitles you to buy them, lock them away and never fire them - not even in semi-auto mode.

Seriously, you might as well buy Denix metal reproductions or quality airsoft weapons - they are just as "shootable", cost less and require far less costly security (and no costly licence).

Pistols bought on a collector's endorsement may not be fired at a range.

Some of our weird laws I agree with - like the one that states that if it looks sufficiently like a real firearm and is brandished in that manner, it is treated as a real, loaded firearm - even if it's a Tokyo Marui airsoft.

Certainly the duress the victim feels is the same as with a real weapon (the brandisher is not going to say "hand over your cash, I have a plastic replica.") and at a distance, not even the most eagle-eyed cop/Armed Offenders Squad member is going to be able to tell if it's a toy or the real deal.

So if you do that, expect to get shot by a cop wielding a real weapon. And no sympathy from anyone.

Well, anyone with a few brain cells, anyway.

And one law I like:

We are permitted to manufacture any firearm for which we hold a licence, provided we give it a serial number.

If I had the facilities and skills, I could manufacture a rifle or shotgun. Anyone got scaled plans for a flintlock mechanism?

Firearms have been used in self-defence here, the key points are: the shooter has to reasonably believe their life (or the life of another) is in imminent danger, there must be no other reasonable courses of action (like fleeing) possible, the shooter must shoot to stop (not kill) and they'd better have a plausible reason why they had a firearm in a state where it could be readily used.

Even our cops must only shoot to stop.

"Shooting to stop" entails shooting the centre of mass until the person stops.

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Old 12-30-2009, 02:31 AM   #16
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i have a .45 at my bedside at all times plus my rat terrier will give a bad guy away before he could break and enter.

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Old 12-30-2009, 06:03 AM   #17
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Simple: I race out and confront the armed intruder, laugh maniacally as his ineffectual bullets bounce off my manly chest hairs then use my Mad Ninja Skillz(tm) to wrest the gun from him using only "reasonable force" (gods forfend I harm the poor underprivileged person whom society has forced to turn to a life of crime, his court-appointed lawyer would make me into hamburger) - or I expire messily in a hail of bullets or cower in my bed yelling "my computer and wallet are in the lounge, please don't hurt me"...

These are the only options the law allows me.

I'm not so sure on the efficacy of "Plan A", truth be told...

Ha, you too Wolf?





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Originally Posted by Wolf1066 View Post
I can own a variety of firearms depending on how much time and money I'm prepared to invest. Rifles deemed to be "sporting" and shotguns are permitted on my current licence. If I joined a pistol club, fulfilled the right criteria and bought the right safe and carry case, I could upgrade to a pistol licence and apply to buy any pistol for which I can furnish a suitable reason for wanting. If I shelled out enough money on a rifle safe and admin fees, I could get a Military Style SemiAuto endorsement that would entitle me to buy firearms such as the AK-47, M16 and other guns that are restricted "because they look scary". A lot more money, checks and applications and I could get a collector's licence that would allow me to apply to purchase anything - pistols, submachineguns, even GPMGs and mortars (but I would not be allowed to fire them at all).

Getting
the things is a matter of a clean record and expensive stuff/applications. Using them for self-defence has been legally upheld in court cases but the legal storage requirements are such that the firearms and ammunition are likely to be separately locked away when someone breaks in brandishing a shotgun - not a lot of use for self-defence in that state...

Air and CO2 rifles and pistols are permitted without a licence if you're over 18 - but they're not a lot of use, either.

Hey hang onto those rights, mate. You can have a sh*tload of stuff (semi-autos/hell even airsoft etc) that we can no longer have...but then you never had a rolled-gold wanker like John Howard as PM, did you?


Have to admit when I think about the theorectical possibility of home defence via firearm...it is a pretty heavy thing to contemplate, if you haven't been raised in that kind of culture.

But I daresay we'd get used to it pretty easy enough if the laws were different; once the crims realised we were on a even level
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:26 AM   #18
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It is a pretty heavy thing to contemplate for those of us not raised in an area where such rights are accorded. But it's also rather heavy when you hear of a young Maori bloke sitting at home watching TV with his young wife and infant child, there's a knock on the door and he goes to answer it suspecting nothing - because you do that here - then finds himself shot in the foot with a shotgun and hustled back into the house by an armed attacker.

He, his wife and infant child are then tied together on the couch, he's bleeding profusely and in pain, and the assailant and an accomplice ransack the place looking for drugs, threaten their lives and won't believe they have no drugs.

Seems the previous tenant had been a druggie and these guys thought he still lived there. They terrorised a young couple and threatened the life of their infant child and eventually left them bound on the couch - all because of wrong information.

That sort of sh!t makes you think, "Hmmmm, perhaps we need proper self-defence laws."

I don't know what I'd do if someone invaded my home and threatened the lives of my children, but I'd want to do something, I would not want to feel as helpless as that bloke and his wife bound on the couch with their lives and the life of their infant at the mercy of armed thugs who shoot first then try to determine if they got the right people...

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Old 12-30-2009, 07:36 AM   #19
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Smith and Wesson M&P .45 on my night stand. Loaded magazine, but not one in the chamber, safety precaution. You have to throw my bedroom door open to get in, so I'll know when someone is trying to get in.

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Old 12-30-2009, 08:44 AM   #20
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I have a CZ-82 next to my recliner on a tabel in the liveingroom and I have a Maverick 88 Security 18.5" barrel pump shotgun 26'' from my left hand as I type this. It's loaded with Remington 3" magnum 00 buck shot.
When I go to bed it will be next to my bed...A.H

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