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Old 02-28-2010, 06:03 PM   #21
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I keep my daily-carry G26 close by when I'm asleep or awake in my house. No kids in my house. Leave bedroom door to outside open, so I won't have to ruin a good door by shooting through it. Depend on my mutts to wake me up, should I be attacked by uncivilized savage DemocRATs.

I was taught to "shoot to kill." That's what I'll do my best to accomplish, should the need ever arise. Not only do dead men tell no tales, but they also don't shoot anymore.
Bingo. That's hitting the nail on the head. I would still be inclined to install an alarm system with perimeter monitoring and 'toughen' the entrances to my home.

Our first home invasion - no perimeter alarm but a dog that would bark like crazy.. Long story short? They drugged the dog and just about killed him. They got in. And they left really fast when they saw me. Nuff said. Today I think it might be a bit different. I had no warning at all and those were the days that you didn't lock the doors (we locked our screen doors and they simply popped them).
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Old 02-28-2010, 06:52 PM   #22
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"Having loaded guns all over the place is a definite biohazard. Why not just strap one on and be done with it? When you sit down you can put it down beside you if that makes you warm and fuzzy."


I DO "strap one on", even in my house. That way, I can shoot the bad guys really quickly if they decide to kick my doors in. I can now see why my grandparents left Canada. You just keep on practicing getting that safe open. I'm sure that the police will praise your civic conscience. Seriously, you need to move South. We can actually defend ourselves. I can reach right down and pull out a handful of Death whenever I feel that the threshold has been met, without asking "Mother, May I?" of some government pogue.
In short, Americans don't have to be murdered if we don't want to. In honor of the recently-departed Tango, I am both compelled and honored to call you a Effing Douche.
I don't live in a neighborhood which tells me what I can or cannot do. I'm an adult with a brain of my own. I can read, and I can think, so why the Hell would I need a gang of sheep dogs to keep me in line? I'm not busting on you personally, but you really need to grow a pair, Pierre.
A gun in a safe is not a home-defense tool. It's just a gun in a safe. I hope to Christ that you are a really good shot with a safe.
Just for the record; unless you are VERY young, your grandparents would have left Canada BEFORE any of the current gun regs came into effect. WE did not require a permit for concealed carry back then (those nasty laws came into effect in the 90's).

Not sure what you are referring to in regards to "the recently departed Tango" but when I was in-country TANGO referred to Tactical Air Naval and Ground operations. I suppose Tango now refers to "TARGET" or something. Heard the term in a movie recently. Where'd you serve? My family are all vets up until the current generation where for some reason it seems to be hit and miss. Ah, changing values. Very few were draftees by the way. Most of the family are Americans, a few Canucks and the wife's half British and again, ALL vets. Her dad is DFC for getting blown to smithereens out of a Halifax in Aden during WWII. The amazing thing is that he survived and still has shrapnel coming to the surface... he either plucks it out himself with a razor blade or visits his GP who uses a scalpel... but that's a bit of a drive. None, as a matter of interest, walk around using the term "Tango". Ah well, each to his own. Or her own.

Have lots of LEO's around too. None of them use the term "Tango" in general conversation either. Not to cut you down a notch, but the term "FUBAR" comes to mind here... most don't have to watch movies to know what that means.

Your personal attack is uncalled for my friend. It indicates to me that you have some serious personal issues that need some attention. And since I am neither qualified to attend to that nor interested in anything further that you have to say, please be advised that effective immediately your postings will not be read by me. A matter of personal choice.

One last thing. Toronto, where I presently reside (although we are on a quest to purchase our retirement home stateside at the moment... looking at FL or AZ/NV) has a population of about 6 million. Murder rate? About 50 per year for a population of 6 million. Think about that and think about the reasons for that. Or take Washington DC with a population of about 700K. Murder rate? 50 per thousand. That would make it about 350 a year. My numbers may be off a bit but what does this tell us?

In any event, your apology would be gratefully accepted at this end but since I am not going to read anything that you care to post in future I have no idea how you would go about that.

In closing I just have one thing to say and I think that it is not uncalled for.

"GROW UP. GET A LIFE. GET SOME HELP IF YOU NEED IT. GET ALL THE FACTS BEFORE BEING AN EXPERT. KNOW WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO BEFORE INSULTING THEM. STOP TROLLING." Geez.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:36 PM   #23
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I keep my daily-carry G26 close by when I'm asleep or awake in my house. No kids in my house. Leave bedroom door to outside open, so I won't have to ruin a good door by shooting through it. Depend on my mutts to wake me up, should I be attacked by uncivilized savage DemocRATs.

I was taught to "shoot to kill." That's what I'll do my best to accomplish, should the need ever arise. Not only do dead men tell no tales, but they also don't shoot anymore.
That Glock 26 sure is a pretty gun; I love mine and wear it when I am able to do so. I installed a ported barrel on it and night sights and it is dead accurate and very fast. VERY fast on the 2nd. and 3rd. shots.

Depending on your mutts to wake you up is a great idea (take it from a personal security consultant in years gone by) but when you let them out to do their business you MUST either walk them or watch them every minute to ensure they are not drugged. A dog is definitely a prime early warning system if trained to bark if an intruder crosses your property and trained to be quiet once their job is done so you can hear what is going on. Not an easy chore but necessay and we will never again be without a dog thusly trained.

"Shoot to kill"? WRONG! And if you post stuff like this or are heard stating things like this a DA will make mincemeat out of you. Remember this statement and repeat it or print it on a card and read it constantly "I shot to stop the assailant's attack on me when he would not otherwise stop. I am sorry to have taken his life and did not intend to do so; I only wanted to stop him from attacking me."

Now, having learned that statement.... here's where you want to aim for. NOT THE CENTRE OF MASS unless you are shooting full automatic (or for gorknoids "select fire"). Where you want to aim for is the center of the "cardiovascular triangle" and that is the triangle formed by a line going from one nipple to the other with the apex (for gorknoids, that's the top of the triangle) at the BASE of the neck. And you want to keep shooting (forget double tap) until the threat is stopped and no further. And if your target has no neck or is hyped on drugs or just plain BIG... your shots are NOT going to stop him very fast. He is going to likely bleed out and that takes time. Your second option if you feel confident, having been unable to stop him with the first shots, is called the "DEAD STOP" triangle and it runs across the lips at the base with its apex at the bridge of the nose roughly. That wound, especially with an 'engineered round' will take out part of the cerebellum and it is a DEAD STOP shot if made. IF made. There is a very low liklihood of even a twitch of the trigger finger if the shot is made and that is where LEO snipers are trained to aim for in a hostage situation or where called for, generally expecting a dead stop and drop. I have seen it on more than one occasion and it is quite the thing to witness. It is also the shot that you may be forced to take if your target is wearing body armour. That's why we need to practice shooting while moving and shooting from cover and shooting in general on a regular basis. IPSC/IDPA/PPC are all good sources of this type of practice but only the beginning. You are much less likely to be the recipient of a round if moving, especially laterally. It changes the sight picture for the bad guy and presumably he is much less proficient than you are.

The Glock 26 is a great firearm and with the new 9mm engineered rounds it is pretty effective; my personal preference is for a .45 engineered round with a ported or compensated barrel like my Glock 30 or even a full size 1911 like my Kimbers or Glocks. Regardless of what you read on the forums 'bigger is better' generally although your accuracy will likely suffer.

One thing is for sure. It is better to have too much gun than too little.

Protect your perimeter (dogs and alarm system; remove the trees and bushes)
Slow them down (steel doors and frames; glass with film on it or with metal between the sheets of glass, etc.)
Bring the family in on the plan (even if they dislike hearing it)
Once inside you are generally entitled to protect yourself, know your rules of engagement.
DO NOT SHOOT TO KILL; shoot to stop the attack by unknown assailants and then you MUST stop. Secure your weapon before police arrive and say nothing to police except that you are feeling ill and want to speak to your attorney.
And lastly, if you feel the need to carry more than one firearm while at home (sic) then its time to move.

Sorry again to babble on. If you have comments please go ahead. But nothing from gorknoid... personal attacks are not tolerated here.
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Old 03-01-2010, 12:58 AM   #24
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I was just kidding about depending on the mutts, leaving the door open, etc. Was not kidding about "Shoot to kill." However, I can see how somebody from the Canada/Northern NY area might buy into that position. Can't imagine any area of North America, other than Mexico, where a citizen (Canada) doesn't have the right to even USE a handgun for s.d. New York's not much better.
Kidding about depending on the mutts is a mistake. In home security a dog is definitely man's best friend and better than any central station monitored alarm system, etc. It is absolutely an early warning system and worthy of careful consideration if you are serious about home defense. Anywhere. It is a matter of training. In terms of "shoot to kill"... that is a very grave error yet a grey area. Yes, we do NOT shoot to wound. But, in legal terms, we shoot to STOP the assault or attack. That is all. You tell a LEO or DA that you were shooting to kill you are going to be in a world of hurt and it does not matter where you are or what the laws are. Even castle doctrine is mitigated by laws governing the judicious use of lethal force. Yes you are entitled to use lethal force and assume someone entering your home intends grievous bodily harm, but you are also obliged everywhere that I am aware of to use judiciously that lethal force. I don't know about the laws of NY State but Canada, as a matter of interest, does appear to have 'castle doctrine' along with the use of judicious lethal force. The storage of handguns in Canada is a complex issue and one must be intimately familiar with them in order really render a personal concluding opinion. One is permitted to have guns in one's home as long as they are stored safely. In terms of long guns, the local hardware store sells 'gun cabinets', etc. that are quickly accessible yet provide safety from prying hands. Personally, I am unhappy with the inability to carry concealed in Canada and there are many working on changing that but right now what is being worked on is the elimination of the gun registry entirely. A good start I would say albeit a bit different than most U.S. jurisdictions. As an American/Canadian I have both a Restricted firearm permit in Canada as well as carry permits from several states to try and cover where I generally travel. Where legal I carry 100% of the time - and the reason is having a gun stuck in my nose in Orlando FL and two home invasions in the Greater Toronto Area; one armed.

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You have two choices when you use a firearm in s.d. You shoot to kill, or you shoot to wound. You'd have to make a very obvious attempt, such as shooting at somebody's feet, etc., in order to convince anybody that you were shooting to wound, not to kill. Any time you point a firearm at another person, particularly if you're aiming c.o.m. or making a headshot, you're shooting to kill. That "shoot to stop" silliness has been promulgated by a certain Napoleonic,chain-smoking, beer-swilling, ignorant, uneducated, seminar-giver/gunrag-writer, who has no legal training and no REAL l.e. experience.

I was advised to shoot to kill by the longest-tenured and least-reversed Superior Court Judge in my state. In addition to two of my offspring who are lawyers, I routinely consult with friends of mine who are District Attorneys, practicing attorneys and Superior Court Judges.

When a state's laws permit the application of lethal force, what do you think "lethal force" means? Additionally, we aren't required to be contrite or grieve, if we are forced to take the life of society's parasites and predators. You'll not suffer any less if you whine and cry than if you say, to the investigating officer(s), "Officer(s) I deeply regret that I could only kill that sorry s.o.b. once!"

I'll take my chances with my sig line and with my intentions, should I ever need to fire in s.d.
Well, not being intimately familiar with the laws of your particular state I have to go with what I have been trained to do and to say. Suffice it to say that the only way to assure the stop of the assault on self is 'shoot to kill'. Nobody really shoots to wound. I agree that it is absurd. However, I will also state, for the record, that should I be involved in a lethal force encounter and wind up taking a life, that I will have been "shooting to stop the attack" and no more or less. If that meant shooting for "centre mass" (sic) and taking a life, so be it. My rules of engagement are very clear in my mind and they do not include shooting at anyone's feet. If I am called upon to take out a hostage taker covered by a hostage or body armour I am going to be taking the 'cerebellum dead stop' shot. No finger flinches by the bad guy that take out the hostage or any innocent bystanders. If I am being charged by an attacker you can rest assured that I am going to shoot and keep on shooting at his/her cardiovascular triangle (COM?) until the threat is stopped. For sure. And if the threat does not stop fast enough (do you know how long it takes for a coke head to cover 21 feet with a knife and slit your throat such that your head is almost decapitated?) I may, if I feel steady enough at the moment, take some head shots trying to make the "dead stop" shot. The point is that different situations demand of us different actions or reactions and we have but a split second to make that/those decisions. It has got to be on auto pilot and our rules of engagement and the aftermath has got to be reflexive and nothing less will do.

Have you been in lethal force encounters. Close up and personal? Big difference that being shot at from 50 or 100 yards or more. Well, I have and I can assure you that my rules of engagement, my actions, my aftermath actions are all well practiced and well thought out. I carry clearly knowing what I am going to do and how I am going to deal with it.

I am CERTAINLY not going to say to any LEO "I only wish I could have killed that SOB more than once". You get a young and zealous LEO and you are in a world of hurt my friend. You have no idea. You are going to lose you liberty at least for a while. You are going to lose your firearms. You are going to lose your permit(s). You are going to probably lose your home or at least increase your mortgage considerably. And so on. I would highly suggest that you and anyone else that is thinking of saying the bad guy was a slimeball and I wish I had more bullets in my gun.... well, I just hope that you get some quality lethal force training and advice in advance. And while you are doing that, find the phone number of a local lawyer specializing in such cases, make contact in advance and keep that number in your wallet and memorized. After your 911 call you should think about making that your next call.

Troll away. This boy has his crap together here, both in terms of know-how and in terms of comfort level and rules of engagement. Sic.

By the way, where the heck do you get your information from? It is bad information or advice at best.

One last thing. I would urge the members of this board to terminate the trolling. Bad information picked up by an impressionable mind is taken as truth once seen on the internet or in writing. If you are going to post information, validate it. Please.

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Old 03-01-2010, 01:08 AM   #25
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Old 03-01-2010, 01:38 AM   #26
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EVERYONE STEP BACK!!!! THIS IS A VERY TACTICAL THREAD!!!!!


TANGO TANGO TANGO....TAAAAANNNNGO, TANGO, TANGO
TANGO!
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"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
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Old 03-01-2010, 02:36 AM   #27
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I carry all the time. I used to put my carry weapon on my night stand like many of you do. But my 11 year old son started having bad dreams. He is not a danger. I have trained him well. He could defend our home if needed. The problem is that several times I awoke to find him standing next to my bed right in front of the night stand. I got to thinking, if he could walk up next to the bed without waking me up, so could a bad guy. I now put it inside the drawer of the night stand. Still easy access. But out of sight. I also have two revolvers in a save in the closet. God help someone breaking in if I made it to the Big safe in the garage. There would be hell to pay!

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Old 03-01-2010, 03:42 PM   #28
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I carry all the time. I used to put my carry weapon on my night stand like many of you do. But my 11 year old son started having bad dreams. He is not a danger. I have trained him well. He could defend our home if needed. The problem is that several times I awoke to find him standing next to my bed right in front of the night stand. I got to thinking, if he could walk up next to the bed without waking me up, so could a bad guy. I now put it inside the drawer of the night stand. Still easy access. But out of sight. I also have two revolvers in a save in the closet. God help someone breaking in if I made it to the Big safe in the garage. There would be hell to pay!
Is this a trolling site or what?
Gun on bedstand with kids in house. Bad idea.
Gun on bedstand with ANYONE in house. Bad idea.
Gun on bedstand in GunVault takes 1.5 seconds to access. Good idea. Especially if GunVault bolted down. Each to his own I guess.
BUT, what we miss here is what are you using to protect your perimeter. What's the first thing you do when setting up shop for the night in a hostile environment? Set up and protect a perimeter, no? Same thing at home. And in my home the perimeter is protected by a dog that will bark when the property is violated and stop barking on command so I can hear what's going on. Your first line of perimeter defense and consider it your 'radar'. Second line of perimeter defense is a hardened perimeter. Glass with anti-entry film installed or double glazed with metal in between the panes (looks amazing!) or just some 2" plastic shutters fastened at the bottom if you can't afford better.... the object is (A) your second alert, and (B) slow the bad guys down. We also ensure that our alarm system is monitored and check it out regularly. It turns the downstairs lights and the outside lights all on when tripped and sets off a LOUD siren. Add that to perimeter defense. The doors are all steel with steel frames and top notch deadlocks. If you have taken all of these steps to protect yourself, should you have to appear in court charged with murder or whatever you have lots to talk about before they call you bloodthirsty. And that they will.

And to make the story short, your LAST line of defense is your firearm, and by now you have hopefully had time to access it and it is hot. You know your rules of engagement and so does your family. Everyone knows the plan so you don't wind up shooting your grandkids. (We don't have any ... yet). And you are on autopilot and have practiced your way to proficiency and reflexive action. And you know enough to keep your piehole closed and have your firearm(s) locked away when the police arrive so you don't wind up getting taken down or shot by mistake. Sorry, I get carried away sometimes.

Truth be known there have been places and times where I have slept with my handgun under the pillow; that way I am preventing (hopefully) anyone from gaining access to it and it is out of sight. I can put my hand on it if I hear something that I don't like but don't have to produce it or put the fear of god into my wife if there was a non-incident. Yet if there is an event happening, I have my hand on my gun and need only flip off the safety and give it a good grip to make ready to fire.

Like they said... a gun in a safe is really only a safe (?). Our AR's and other guns are in a 2,000# safe as well. It takes about 2 seconds to open but in real terms that's two seconds too many when you need it. And you have to get to it. And load it. And make ready. And....

The small GunVault is outstanding and so are the small pushbutton safes; they take very little time to open and it keeps everyone away from the guns. Unfortunately I have someone 'close' that put a .45 hollow point through their hand a couple of years ago and it is pretty much useless now (the hand... the .45 still works well though, if you can take any good news out of this). It was his mother's gun and it was locked in a flimsy way. And despite TWENTY years of handling firearms it took this "kid" only a fraction of a second. So I try to balance safety with readiness. And my radar is always up and on. Especially in rest stops. I'm still trying to figure out how to pee and stand ready to defend myself with my gun around my ankles. (It takes me two hands to do my business and I apologize if I am offending anyone or making them jeleous).
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Old 03-01-2010, 04:10 PM   #29
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Here in MI you can shoot if you are in fear of your life,in fear of great bodily harm or fear of sexual assault.

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Old 03-01-2010, 04:30 PM   #30
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Folks, it looks like the fountain of all knowledge - torontoguy - has joined us to let us know we're all dumb trolls.

Torontoguy - you need to lighten up as there are a few of us on this site that actually have a tad of experience. If you, and I repeat you, want to keep all your guns locked up in a safe - have at it. I hope you always have that few seconds to open the safe should the need arise...

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