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Old 06-01-2013, 05:12 PM   #211
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Mahall, maybe you live in one of those liberal states where you have to need permission to own a gun much less use it for SD, but i live in Texas and in Texas with our Castle Law we are allowed to use even up to deadly force to defend even our property.

we don't have to prove intent at a break in. only that we were in fear for our safety. we don't even have to retreat if possible. a BG or BG's break into your home at 2:00 in the morning, i seriously doubt they are there for tea and cookies or even you big screen tv. they have a different agenda as they knew you were home. if robbery was the only motive, they would hit your home when everyone was gone.

and will add this, that if you are uncommitted or not prepared to use deadly force if needed in defence of your life or your loved ones, then you have no business with a firearm for SD purposes. IMO, the taking of a life, even a BG's life is not an easy decision to make and not one i made lightly, but after much thought and reflection on the matter.

and why should i have to run or retreat from my own home just to appease the wishes of a BG who decides to commit and act of violence? i shouldn't have to, it's my home and my property and he has no rights there, but i do and the law in the state of Texas is on my side, not the BG's. in Texas when a BG breaks into my home i have the right to show him the error of his choices.
I'm not saying I agree with Florida law!! But that is the basic outline of the law in Fl. So if you come to this State and Shoot someone outside that law and go to prison at least you have been warned!! I love guns and the right to carry and protect myself but I darn sure don't want to go to prison cause I was ignorant to the law. Some start carrying and buying guns before they really know there States laws, which all differ at least slightly!! And it doesn't hurt to stay updated because they often change!! And some don't worry to much about the law they write there own, which is cool I guess as long as they are willing to pay the consequences!! I'm just trying to inform people!! What they do is there choice!!
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #212
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I'm not saying I agree with Florida law!! But that is the basic outline of the law in Fl. So if you come to this State and Shoot someone outside that law and go to prison at least you have been warned!! I love guns and the right to carry and protect myself but I darn sure don't want to go to prison cause I was ignorant to the law. Some start carrying and buying guns before they really know there States laws, which all differ at least slightly!! And it doesn't hurt to stay updated because they often change!! And some don't worry to much about the law they write there own, which is cool I guess as long as they are willing to pay the consequences!! I'm just trying to inform people!! What they do is there choice!!
And my personal opinion I don't see the necessity to kill someone over material objects!! If its so valuable it should be out of would be thief's reach!! I mean there has to be a line somewhere!! People wrong other people everyday in someway but that shouldn't give us the right to kill!! But that's just me!! But mess with me or my family and all bets are off
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:50 PM   #213
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And my personal opinion I don't see the necessity to kill someone over material objects!! If its so valuable it should be out of would be thief's reach!! I mean there has to be a line somewhere!! People wrong other people everyday in someway but that shouldn't give us the right to kill!! But that's just me!! But mess with me or my family and all bets are off
Mahall, IMO when a thief breaks into my home to rob me, he really needs to ask himself is robbing me worth the risk of dying. it's my property and it belongs to me. being on my property and breaking into my home and trying steal my things is a threat and they know that what they are doing is wrong. they made a choice to commit a felony and they have to live with the choices they make.

if i came home during the middle of the day from work and found someone had broke into my home and was still there, then i would hold them there at gunpoint until LE showed up. if they became a threat or endangered my life in any way, then i would show them the error of those choices.

there are no free passes or warning shots on my property. if i felt the need to fire a gun at another person, it will be because i felt my life was in danger and will respond accordingly. i will not shoot to kill or wound, but to stop the threat to me or my loved ones.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:28 PM   #214
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Mahall, IMO when a thief breaks into my home to rob me, he really needs to ask himself is robbing me worth the risk of dying. it's my property and it belongs to me. being on my property and breaking into my home and trying steal my things is a threat and they know that what they are doing is wrong. they made a choice to commit a felony and they have to live with the choices they make.

if i came home during the middle of the day from work and found someone had broke into my home and was still there, then i would hold them there at gunpoint until LE showed up. if they became a threat or endangered my life in any way, then i would show them the error of those choices.

there are no free passes or warning shots on my property. if i felt the need to fire a gun at another person, it will be because i felt my life was in danger and will respond accordingly. i will not shoot to kill or wound, but to stop the threat to me or my loved ones.
Well thank you for that very detailed opinion!! Gun is just a tool, a valuable one if needed!! But at the end of the day it's our instincts and fast decision making that will carry us through!! I can't honestly say how would react, 1. I've never been in a crises situation 2. I have to believe ever situation is uniquely different and that points squarely back to Instincts and rapid decision making!! Brain power, mans best weapon by miles. Never under estimate what makes us unique and it ain't the gun on your hip-
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:43 PM   #215
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As much as all this talk is - I really don't think the 'BG's' really want to get into a gun fight. Call 911 and a few shots will probably will get them to leave.
While it's true that most BG's will run like hell at the sight of a gun, it's pretty obvious that we're not discussing those situation because any ol' gun would do.

Instead, we're discussing the "home invasion" situation. By definition, a home invasion is when the BG invades a home knowing it is occupied. This is a very dangerous BG and the record shows that these situations rarely end well. A few shots won't likely be much of a deterrent to them.


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Most of you probably haven't been in combat: it really sucks, but, these are situations that people are there to 'kill and destroy'. Most home invasions are to 'get in and get out' situations.
Combat has very little to do with home defense, except for the fact that both are violent. In combat, you are following orders and have little if any discretion regarding the mission or your choice of weapon, there is no legal aftermath to contend with, and last but not least, your family isn't present.


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I really wouldn't get to hung up on the weapon: just having and shooting will probably change the whole situation.
This sounds like Joe Biden telling his wife to just go out on the balcony and fire a couple of shots out of the shotgun.


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DO you really thing this will go on for 10/20 minutes; gun fights do NOT last that long (though it may seem to last that long).
This is definitely true, however, if you live in the country like I do where it may be an hour or more before law enforcement arrives your home-defense is entirely in your hands.

Additionally, there is the natural disaster scenario followed by collapse of the social infrastructure that leads to extended defense situations ala Katrina. While the shooting may be brief, if at all, the need for an armed defense may be quite real over an extended period of time. In this situation, an AR or shotgun may be advantageous because the roving BG's can see it and back off.


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DO you really thing this will go on for 10/20 minutes; gun fights do NOT last that long (though it may seem to last that long).

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In the Boston shoot out over 250 shot were fired: one BG killed and one Transit cop hit (my sisters son in law) - not a lot of hits
What can I say, the cops in Boston were out of control.

FYI, it's not much different in combat. Certainly not in Vietnam where soldiers frequently put their M16 on 'spread' and emptied mags at sounds without seeing a target.

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Have an escape plan and get the 'hell out of there'.
[combat Marine - Vietnam).
Escape plan for a home invasion? Escape to where????
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:59 PM   #216
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While it's true that most BG's will run like hell at the sight of a gun, it's pretty obvious that we're not discussing those situation because any ol' gun would do.

Instead, we're discussing the "home invasion" situation. By definition, a home invasion is when the BG invades a home knowing it is occupied. This is a very dangerous BG and the record shows that these situations rarely end well. A few shots won't likely be much of a deterrent to them.




Combat has very little to do with home defense, except for the fact that both are violent. In combat, you are following orders and have little if any discretion regarding the mission or your choice of weapon, there is no legal aftermath to contend with, and last but not least, your family isn't present.




This sounds like Joe Biden telling his wife to just go out on the balcony and fire a couple of shots out of the shotgun.




This is definitely true, however, if you live in the country like I do where it may be an hour or more before law enforcement arrives your home-defense is entirely in your hands.

Additionally, there is the natural disaster scenario followed by collapse of the social infrastructure that leads to extended defense situations ala Katrina. While the shooting may be brief, if at all, the need for an armed defense may be quite real over an extended period of time. In this situation, an AR or shotgun may be advantageous because the roving BG's can see it and back off.







What can I say, the cops in Boston were out of control.

FYI, it's not much different in combat. Certainly not in Vietnam where soldiers frequently put their M16 on 'spread' and emptied mags at sounds without seeing a target.



Escape plan for a home invasion? Escape to where????
well put OlympicFox.

i too live in a rural area and response time for LE could be anywhere from 15-30 depending on wher they are at. that's a very long time for a BG to do lots of damage if i wasn't armed.

i agree that a home invasion is toatlly different than a home burglary. one is about theft and the other is about assault and terror. too many times home invasions have resulted in assaults, rape, murder and arson. home invaders a lot of times kill so they leave no witness's to their criminal acts.

what if the BG is hopped on on meth? seeing a gun or even firing warning shots will not deter him. but a few well placed shots should.

and exactly why should i leave my heated/cooled home to run out and hide in the woods? by gosh it's my house, not the BG's! he needs to leave and if that is horizontal instead of vertical, then so be it.
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:16 PM   #217
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I like and believe most of what you say!! And I personally appreciate your service to our Country!! I do believe most any gun is sufficient for home Defense!! Most BG's want something from you and it's generally not your life or wife!! And if its your life they want, they are very likely not to breakdown your door to do that!! And in most States you just can't shoot people cause they want to steel your granddaddies gold watch!! Even if they are in your house you have to prove intent to do grave harm!! So if you shoot someone at least in the State of FL they better be twice your size or have a deadly weapon in there hands!! And yes by the letter of the law shooting someone should be very last resort to preserve your life or someone else! In no circumstances is it lawful to shoot people over theft!! Now there is a bit of gray there to lean on when it comes to "intent" especially when someone invades your house!! And yes running or escaping, should be considered way before you attempt to take a life!! Gun owning/carrying is a tremendous responsibility, we are walking around with little bombs in our pockets!! Society has a great deal of trust in us, wether they know it or not!! Your brain is far more likely to save your life and keep you out of jail than any gun every made!! Peace my friends!! Love to talk guns!!
Maybe you need to read the law again we in Florida have no duty to retreat and that extends to anywhere we lawfully belong including our personal conveyance.
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:08 PM   #218
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I hate hypothetical questions, but here goes anyway. It's the middle of the night and I hear an intruder. I get my gun confront the BG and determine he is unarmed. If I order him to the ground or to leave and he tries to attack me instead, my thought process is I must use my firearm at that point because if I loose hand to hand the BG is now in possession of my gun? This to me sounds like one of the worst legal positions to be in, anyone have any thoughts?

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Old 06-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #219
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who says that you have to call the cops or that the body has to be found in your house, hmm?

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Old 06-01-2013, 08:33 PM   #220
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I hate hypothetical questions, but here goes anyway. It's the middle of the night and I hear an intruder. I get my gun confront the BG and determine he is unarmed. If I order him to the ground or to leave and he tries to attack me instead, my thought process is I must use my firearm at that point because if I loose hand to hand the BG is now in possession of my gun? This to me sounds like one of the worst legal positions to be in, anyone have any thoughts?
If the guy attacks you then there is a" threat of great bodily harm".The BG has unlawfully broken into you're home and (if you live here in Florida)you have "no duty to retreat".This is where you may protect you're self with deadly force.Now however if you have given him the option to run away you may not want to run after him /her and shoot the BG in the back.Check you're laws in you're state every state is different.
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