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Old 04-09-2013, 08:26 PM   #101
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Standard 5.56MM 55 grain FMJ M193 ammunition is probably a better choice than a hot loaded 9MM or magnum buckshot rounds if you're really concerned about penetration.

At 3 AM, if someone breaks down your door, will your children be wandering around the house a lot?

Could you aim high (or perhaps low)? A kneeless ninja won't run very far or fast and probably won't be attacking too many people, Monty Python characters aside. You can be on all the drugs you want, if you don't have knees you aren't much of a threat. Just sayin.

It concerns me that I might shoot through someone or miss them altogether and punch a hole in a wall, but is there some reason why changing the angle you present your weapon to the target won't work? Perhaps let the criminal walk into an ambush in a confined space like a hallway with a shot taken into an unoccupied space? You already know the layout of your property, why not use it to your advantage?

If it were me, I think I'd worry a lot more about hitting the target than what might happen if I miss or the criminal is malnourished.

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Old 04-10-2013, 01:42 AM   #102
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Lol what is it about this thread that has caused such persistence? The OP asked for a simple answer to "this or that" and I'd say about 10 at the most answered correspondingly. These are the threads that should be shut down.

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Old 04-10-2013, 06:37 PM   #103
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Lol what is it about this thread that has caused such persistence? The OP asked for a simple answer to "this or that" and I'd say about 10 at the most answered correspondingly. These are the threads that should be shut down.
I consider myself one of those that responded directly to the OP's question. However, I fail to see what the problem is with a thread developing a life of its own as long as it's a healthy life.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:40 PM   #104
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Lol what is it about this thread that has caused such persistence? The OP asked for a simple answer to "this or that" and I'd say about 10 at the most answered correspondingly. These are the threads that should be shut down.
Yeah. I guess it doesn't make much sense for people to explain why they feel one way or another about someone's answer. Heck, we might actually learn something constructive that would influence the decision.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:44 PM   #105
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Standard 5.56MM 55 grain FMJ M193 ammunition is probably a better choice than a hot loaded 9MM or magnum buckshot rounds if you're really concerned about penetration.

At 3 AM, if someone breaks down your door, will your children be wandering around the house a lot?

Could you aim high (or perhaps low)? A kneeless ninja won't run very far or fast and probably won't be attacking too many people, Monty Python characters aside. You can be on all the drugs you want, if you don't have knees you aren't much of a threat. Just sayin.

It concerns me that I might shoot through someone or miss them altogether and punch a hole in a wall, but is there some reason why changing the angle you present your weapon to the target won't work? Perhaps let the criminal walk into an ambush in a confined space like a hallway with a shot taken into an unoccupied space? You already know the layout of your property, why not use it to your advantage?

If it were me, I think I'd worry a lot more about hitting the target than what might happen if I miss or the criminal is malnourished.
I've been through I don't know how many shooting courses, both LE and civilian defensive, and every one of them taught us to aim at the Center of Mass. The only good excuse that I'm aware of for aiming at an alternative target is that the center of mass is not available. For example, the COM is behind cover, behind a hostage, wearing body armor, etc. Trick shots are for Hollywood.

Your best assurance of hitting the target where you want to hit the target is through training and having the best equipment for the situation - such as an intuitive laser sight.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:25 PM   #106
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One thing in favor of the 45 - bullets are big and SLOW: usually do NOT penetrate walls - this from a sheriff friend of mine. SO, who's in the next room?

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Old 04-10-2013, 09:11 PM   #107
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One thing in favor of the 45 - bullets are big and SLOW: usually do NOT penetrate walls - this from a sheriff friend of mine. SO, who's in the next room?
This could not be anymore wrong. Your friend is gravely mistaken. A 55gr 556 out of an AR will stop way before a 45 ACP bullet. There are a couple of tests on YouTube, will try to find.

In that test, the 45 penetrates four walls and I believe ends up in the berm, while the tiny 556 breaks up after two walls.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:52 PM   #108
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I've been through I don't know how many shooting courses, both LE and civilian defensive, and every one of them taught us to aim at the Center of Mass. The only good excuse that I'm aware of for aiming at an alternative target is that the center of mass is not available. For example, the COM is behind cover, behind a hostage, wearing body armor, etc. Trick shots are for Hollywood.

Your best assurance of hitting the target where you want to hit the target is through training and having the best equipment for the situation - such as an intuitive laser sight.
You're absolutely correct, no "trick" shots. I was thinking about contact shots in "safe" directions. My home is 1500 square feet and is rather cramped inside. Maximum shoot distances are 10 yards or less because of the layout.

Although a secondary consideration, 556 will penetrate soft body armor without issue. The criminals who rob banks and stores here have been known to wear soft body armor.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:35 AM   #109
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This could not be anymore wrong. Your friend is gravely mistaken. A 55gr 556 out of an AR will stop way before a 45 ACP bullet. There are a couple of tests on YouTube, will try to find.

In that test, the 45 penetrates four walls and I believe ends up in the berm, while the tiny 556 breaks up after two walls.
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:44 PM   #110
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I've been through I don't know how many shooting courses, both LE and civilian defensive, and every one of them taught us to aim at the Center of Mass. The only good excuse that I'm aware of for aiming at an alternative target is that the center of mass is not available. For example, the COM is behind cover, behind a hostage, wearing body armor, etc. Trick shots are for Hollywood.

Your best assurance of hitting the target where you want to hit the target is through training and having the best equipment for the situation - such as an intuitive laser sight.
I was also always taught to aim Center Of Mass. But in the last class I took to get my Concealed Carry Permit, they stated that shooting at the cradle area on the body, i.e., hip to hip and groin area, that a shot there would immediately disable the threat as he/she would not be able to stand at all. I had never heard of this. Even in combat training in the Corps I was never taught this. I'm not challenging what you've said at all, Oly, just wondering if you or anyone else had ever heard of this tactic? I keep a 1911 in .38 Super +P bedside and a shotgun loaded with 00 buck above the door. I have no more kids at home, so that's no concern. When the grandkids come over, a trigger-lock goes on the shotgun and the 1911 is on my hip, as always during waking hours.
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