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Old 04-25-2014, 09:54 PM   #31
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I have moved to pretty much nothing but HP ammo for carry. But a lot of that is based on newer bullet designs. Companies like Hornady, Speer, and Winchester have gone pretty far in devleoping bullets for specific calibers and velocity ranges. They use tougher jackets, selected lead and jacket alloys for hardness, bonded jackets, tapered jackets, reverse tapered jackets, all to try to attain proper penetration while getting predictable expansion and weight retention. Some loads, even in the same caliber and bullet weight may use differnt powders and bullet construction for short barreled guns. Things have come a long way since the days of Nyclads, Silvertips, and flying ashtrays.

I typically go with Gold Dots, or Winchester Ranger T loads. They feed reliably, they are very consistent in accuracy, which are my first two priorities, The tests I have done in Gel, water jugs, wet news print, and wet cloth, have shown these bullets to penetrate well, retain bullet weight and jacket integrety and expand reliably. As long as they feed reliably and hit accurately, the next worst thing they can do is fail to expand, and then I'm no worse off than using an FMJ.
I can tell that silvertips will come apart by just shooting a steel spinner. After shooting silvertips I find the copper jackets on the ground unscathed. The copper jacket looks like I could stuff another bullet in it.

Hi Shok ammo has been around a long time. Hi Shok has downed a lot of goblins. I find Hi Shock bullets around my spinners too. They are dented in the contact area but otherwise they don't expand on steel.

I have never bought a box of +P Hi Shok ammo. I read a review where they tested both Hi Shok loads. In their gelatin test the standard Hi Shok was not expanding. The +P Hi Shok was expanding. I really find this annoying. I can get standard Hi Shok ammo for $19 for 50 rounds. I can get FMJ ammo for $13. Since Hi Shok does no better than a FMJ why bother?
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:30 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by SSGN_Doc View Post
I have moved to pretty much nothing but HP ammo for carry. But a lot of that is based on newer bullet designs. Companies like Hornady, Speer, and Winchester have gone pretty far in devleoping bullets for specific calibers and velocity ranges. They use tougher jackets, selected lead and jacket alloys for hardness, bonded jackets, tapered jackets, reverse tapered jackets, all to try to attain proper penetration while getting predictable expansion and weight retention. Some loads, even in the same caliber and bullet weight may use differnt powders and bullet construction for short barreled guns. Things have come a long way since the days of Nyclads, Silvertips, and flying ashtrays.

I typically go with Gold Dots, or Winchester Ranger T loads. They feed reliably, they are very consistent in accuracy, which are my first two priorities, The tests I have done in Gel, water jugs, wet news print, and wet cloth, have shown these bullets to penetrate well, retain bullet weight and jacket integrety and expand reliably. As long as they feed reliably and hit accurately, the next worst thing they can do is fail to expand, and then I'm no worse off than using an FMJ.
well said Doc. pretty much my thoughts as well.

i use mainly the Hornady XTP loads and also use a lot of Hornady XTP bullets in my reloads for practice. i also use the Speer Gold Dots as they are top notch as well.

my first concern with any ammo is reliablity if that gun might be used for SD usage. a FMJ load that feeds reliabily is superior to a JHP load that won't. accuracy and expansion are secondary concerns for me after it passes being reliable. unless it feeds and fires everytime the trigger is pulled, the other factors like expansion, penetration and accuracy are pretty much irrelevent IMO.
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:50 AM   #33
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I can tell that silvertips will come apart by just shooting a steel spinner. After shooting silvertips I find the copper jackets on the ground unscathed. The copper jacket looks like I could stuff another bullet in it.

Hi Shok ammo has been around a long time. Hi Shok has downed a lot of goblins. I find Hi Shock bullets around my spinners too. They are dented in the contact area but otherwise they don't expand on steel.

I have never bought a box of +P Hi Shok ammo. I read a review where they tested both Hi Shok loads. In their gelatin test the standard Hi Shok was not expanding. The +P Hi Shok was expanding. I really find this annoying. I can get standard Hi Shok ammo for $19 for 50 rounds. I can get FMJ ammo for $13. Since Hi Shok does no better than a FMJ why bother?
Exactly. The Silvertip was cutting edge though in the 1980s. I saw a lot of jacket separations, clogged cavities, etc.

I also have seen the same with the generic Winchester HP and federal Hi Shok rounds. The Gold Dots, And Winchester Ranger don't seem to have these problems as much. Hornady Critical defense and Critical Duty ammo seem to do alright, burial haven't shot enough of them to be as confident in them.
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:55 AM   #34
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Axxe. The Hornady XTP is still one of my favorites for handloads for hunting. There are also good commercial loads that use that bullet as well. I have had some jackets come apart or had some lead peel away, but it was one of the first really consistent bullets I ever tested out in wet phone books. We got some 9mm jackets to fail by running them through a carbine, which boosted the velocity almost 200 more fps over pistol velocities.

I think the XTP was one if the "milestones" in Hornady trying to tailor bullet construction to caliber and velocity. Other manufacturers had to come along or try to exceed that benchmark. And I think that competition really drove toward the Talons, the Golden Saber, Hydrashok, and Gold Dot.

Competition is good for the consumer and we have a lot of better bullets today because of it.

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Old 04-29-2014, 03:56 PM   #35
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It's been my sad experience that ammo manufacturers are

much more worried about what YOU think their ammo

will do,
as opposed to what it actually does.

That said, I also like Hornady.

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Old 04-29-2014, 11:37 PM   #36
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Most ballistic tests indicate that 45 ACP has the same or greater penetration as most other ammo types, and in addition has a larger wound cavity causing more tissue damage and a greater chance of stopping an attacker.




This is only true of those shot with a single bullet, morbidity is 18%, but those shot with two or more bullets morbidity is 80%, it is not the bullet type or caliber but the amount of damage. I like Hornaday XTP.




Yes it is flawed!! First humans are not sacks of gelatin but bones, flesh and organs each having different densities, second faster bullets have a tendency to go through a humans doing less damage than slower bullets that expend all their energy within the human frame. Third larger holes mean bigger wounds and bleed out faster.

I will stick with the 45 ACP hollow points for larger holes, more damage to tissue and the ability to break bones while traveling through different levels of clothing, bone and organs.

Just my take on the issue.
Jim
I'm with you. My primary carry gun is a Glock 21SF and I prefer JHPs both for the stopping power due to damage inflicted and to reduce the chances of over penetration.
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:08 PM   #37
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FMJ for 380 and smaller because 'penetration' of these little guns is needed if you don't have a 'perfect' frontal presentation. All others (38 sp and larger) use the best JHP which are reliable and accurate in your PPD. And if you live in NJ where possession of a HP is a felony FMJ are required!

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