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Old 08-12-2012, 03:24 AM   #1
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Default Florida gun statute unconstitutional?

I have made it known that I am in support of open carry. Us in Florida currently do not have the general ability to openly carry a firearm. Last year Florida passed a retarded law "allowing" those in Florida with a concealed carry permit to "BRIEFLY" open carry when a handgun has accidently become exposed. The president of the sheriffs association has said that no citizen has been or will be harassed for accidental exposure. In direct conflict with his statements and with the recently passed bill several people have been arrested and currently being prosocuted for "briefly" exposing their firearms.

I have been a long time, but sporadic lurcher on the opencarry.org website. There is a thread titled Another Arrested for Accidental Exposure in Florida - With VIDEO. http://www.allnineyards.com/2012/06/arrested-and-prosecuted-for-accidental-exposure-of-lawfully-carried-handgun/ is a link to more info on the case. On of the members, StogieC, is a lawyer who is working on the case. He is the executive director of Florida Carry, INC and the founder of Florida Open Carry Movement. On the last page of the thread he included his two motions for dismissal. One is based in the notion that the statute banning open carry is unconstitutional. I have no knowledge for law. This is the first legal motion I have ever read. But I am very impressed with its argument. Its a long read and I glazed through the repetitive stuff and the legal jargon that is over my head. Im sure some of you that understands this type of writing can decipher it. But to summorize, the basis of the argument is that open carry is the only constitutionally protected method of carry. I dont remember if he only used Florida case law or other state's case law to make this argument. And that through Florida precident and case law that conceal carry is a privilage, and as such is subject to regulations. And that the current Florida statute prohibiting open carry is thus unconstitutional.

One of the parts I like the best is the passage from a Louisiana case that highlights the criminal aspect of secretly concealing a handgun.

Quote:
As early as 1850 the Louisiana Supreme Court held that citizens did have a right to carry arms openly: "This is the right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, and which is calculated to incite men to a manly and noble defence of themselves, if necessary, and of their country, without any tendency to secret advantages and unmanly assassinations."
I believe this is only in the appelate court, and regardless of decision will be appealed to the Florida Supreme Court. But, I am hoping this motion for dismissal is ruled in favor of and Florida will have the constitutionally protect form of bearing arms returned to Florida so that we are not stuck with only the privilage of concealed carry.
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Last edited by canebrake; 08-14-2012 at 12:27 PM. Reason: TTTP
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:23 PM   #2
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I am of the opinion that 'laws' are simply WHIMS of the moment. One cannot in good conscience respect laws that defy and contradict the integrity of its merit
that first required passage. The right of brief exposure and arrested for it afterward comes as no surprise to me. The incomprehensible rise in arrests, lawful or unlawful,
facilitates the 'money-making' scheme either way. Each time an arrest is made I could almost hear the ring of the cash register opening. The termites are undermining
the foundation that once made America the greatest!

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Old 08-12-2012, 10:32 PM   #3
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I would call it a "money-burning" scheme. It just burns the money froom taxpayers pockets.

The lawyer in the opencarry.org thread wrote that there should be a ruling on August 14th. I will be watching that thread intently to see if we can finally get real open carry.

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Old 08-12-2012, 10:40 PM   #4
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All gun control for law abiding citizens is unconstitutional.

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Old 08-12-2012, 10:53 PM   #5
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Love the Louisiana section there. Manly Men like me are invited to be as Manly as huManly possible.

In fact, this practice of Manliness, openly carrying, is allowed at the age of 17. Our freaking BOYS are more Manly than most states' men.

Now, if we can only do something about the fact we have the highest insurance rates in the country due to terrible roads and terrible drivers...

Sorry, end rant. No, I didn't read the story, I will though, and chime in later with my thoughts on it.

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Old 08-15-2012, 05:50 AM   #6
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Yeah, I can understand how a lawyer could view the FL law - and attack it - easily.
The law is contradictory.
It's supposed to be legal to own a gun in the US - FL, being part of the US - it is then logically legal to own a gun in FL. Not many people would argue this.
But for FL to say it is illegal to open carry implies that your legal gun must be concealed.
But if you don't have a concealed carry permit, then it is illegal for you to carry your gun concealed. This would include even a newly purchased gun in a wrapper. Or a gun in a case being taken to a range for practice, or... You name it.
So, it is now illegal in FL to transport a gun - unless you have a concealed carry permit - which most people do not.
The US constitution doesn't say we have a right to keep and bear arms - but only if we have concealed carry permits. It says we have a right to keep and bear arms - and that would logically include carrying the gun - or any other practical necessity connected with having a gun.
This FL law is completely bogus. But then many, many laws on the books are...

For whatever it's worth - here is another view of the open carry:
Here in Ohio we have open carry. But if you do actually carry openly in public, most likely you will have a swift visit from the police - and a heavy duty questioning.
--- Reason - People, passersby, are scared, afraid, shocked, ... and call the police. ---- And we all know that the police love to respond to "bad guys" and detain and question and, perhaps, twist things around to the point that you are suddenly guilty of a crime.
If not accused/guilty - you have lost a couple hours of your time that day - and now likely have a "record" with the local police and are maybe on a "watch" list.

So - do you really want to carry openly in Ohio? Or any other place, for that matter.
I have run into people locally that insist on doing it (open carry) - saying it is their right - and, of course, it is their right. But they always have police stories that go with those tales of bravado that they spin. It just isn't practical or good for your life.

But the Florida law is contradictory - in a number of ways - not just the one that I just pointed out.

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Old 08-24-2012, 03:28 PM   #7
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Look at your Lawyer, now look at me, NOW look at your lawyer, now look at ME. I'm the man your lawyer could smell like!

But I am not a lawyer... Florida Carry does however have a team of great smelling lawyers.

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Old 08-24-2012, 04:26 PM   #8
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I understand the arguements above by several members. I, for one, in any society would always carry concealed.
That safety measure on my part serves me well in the event which may call for its lethal exposure. I pull when necessary.
I have done it once and it serve the purpose well.

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Old 08-24-2012, 05:19 PM   #9
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When it comes to carry, be pro-choice. In some times and places you should choose to carry concealed, in some times and places you should choose to carry unconcealed.

Regardless, the method of carry should be the carrier's choice to make based on responsible decision making.

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Old 08-25-2012, 03:29 AM   #10
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Umm Florida has the castle doctrine and your vehicle is an extension of that so yes you can have a firearm in your car without a ccw. It has to be in a lockable box that being a firearm case where a lock can be put on or your glove box. You can't have it on your person or under your seat readily available but you can have it in the vehicle.

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