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Old 04-15-2014, 01:00 AM   #101
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So are you saying it is a sport and LEO's are fair game because they chose this job???
If so I am sorry to here that. I thought you had more respect for those of us who as you say 'made the career choice'.
love the way you try and take my words and twist them around and then avoid actually answering the question i asked in the first place.

Bravo Jim! well played. classic liberal tactic.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:38 AM   #102
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I haven't been pulled over while carrying yet. My permit is right under my drivers license and my intent is to pass both through the window and sit still with my hands in view on top of the steering wheel. I have friends that are in law enforcement and understand that adrenaline starts flowing when they approach a car, even if nothing bad has ever happened to them, there's been enough instances of deadly traffic stops in the news. Accidents happen and anything I can do to ensure things go smoothly so that I make it home to my kids I'm willing to do. If something happens to me because of a misunderstanding or lack of communication, regardless of whose fault it is, then I'm no longer there to protect my kids which at this stage of my life is my number one priority.


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Old 04-15-2014, 02:40 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
I don't see it as a "courtesy" thing. Now... If I had prison tats running up my next, drove a trashed beater, or otherwise "looked" like someone LEO's would be concerned with... Then I might consider handing my CCW over with my license but my reality is that I'm "not that guy."

If I'm asked to exit, I would certainly hand over the CCW before getting out because sure... I don't want to look like I'm hiding anything, but during the course of a "normal" stop, I just see how my status is relevant unless the officer asks.

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Hmmm... I can see it now...

"Sir, would you please step out of the vehicle?"

"Just a minute. Before I get out, let me get something else out of my pocket that I didn't want to confuse you with earlier..."

I can see that ending very badly, Tack...

You have the people skills to be able to talk your way through the process. Not everyone reading this thread does. What may work out well within your principles could lead to real problems for others.

I doubt handing the officer the card will confuse them. Not handing them the card seems more likely to become an awkward situation at best, dangerous at worst.

Just my opinion.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:44 AM   #104
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Well... In 25 tears of driving and a dozen or so traffic stops, I've never felt the urge to place my wallet back into my hip pocket while officer friendly still had my DL.

Perhaps some folks carry their CHL in their sock... Or in their front pocket...

...again, not my reality... and I can't help others with the affliction of "stupid".

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Hmmm... I can see it now...

"Sir, would you please step out of the vehicle?"

"Just a minute. Before I get out, let me get something else out of my pocket that I didn't want to confuse you with earlier..."

I can see that ending very badly, Tack...

You have the people skills to be able to talk your way through the process. Not everyone reading this thread does. What may work out well within your principles could lead to real problems for others.

I doubt handing the officer the card will confuse them. Not handing them the card seems more likely to become an awkward situation at best, dangerous at worst.

Just my opinion.
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:41 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by emo View Post
I haven't been pulled over while carrying yet. My permit is right under my drivers license and my intent is to pass both through the window and sit still with my hands in view on top of the steering wheel. I have friends that are in law enforcement and understand that adrenaline starts flowing when they approach a car, even if nothing bad has ever happened to them, there's been enough instances of deadly traffic stops in the news. Accidents happen and anything I can do to ensure things go smoothly so that I make it home to my kids I'm willing to do. If something happens to me because of a misunderstanding or lack of communication, regardless of whose fault it is, then I'm no longer there to protect my kids which at this stage of my life is my number one priority.


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Emo, this is a good point, I just have a hard time picturing the cop as adrenaline-rushing and ready to draw. While I'm sure officers approach each car warily, the driver's attitude will pretty much set the tone of the encounter. Stay cool, move slow and talk to the officer.

I read somewhere that the best way to handle a traffic stop while armed is simple:

* If at night, While pulling over, turn on your dome light. This allows the officer to see the interior of the vehicle better.
* Sit quietly in the seat with both hands on the wheel until officer approaches.
* If required by state law to do so, notify.
* When asked, and not until being asked, hand over driver's license, registration and insurance with your carry permit ON TOP of all of the documents. This requires him to look at and move the permit, further confirming you notified.
* Answer all questions calmly and concisely. Don't talk with your hands.
* Do not leave the vehicle ever, unless requested to by the officer.

With these simple guidelines, the officer should have no reason to even consider drawing, or even getting suspicious about you. This is a situation where common sense goes a long way.
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:07 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by 7point62 View Post
I have a real problem with Duty to Inform. Luckily I live in a state that doesn't require it. If I'm legally armed and get pulled over for exceeding the speed limit or having a missing taillight, why should I start confessing about perfectly legal behavior that has no relevance to the traffic stop? If I presented any danger at all then why was I issued a concealed weapons permit in the first place? IMHO, once you get a license to carry, you're not doing anything wrong and it shouldn't be an issue.
Common courtesy is dead? Put your self in the officer's shoes. Wouldn't you prefer to know who you are dealing with? LE is a dangerous job. It is made more dangerous by people with guns. Le is a stressful job. It is made more stressful by people who just do not think.

Yes, you are legally carrying. Trust me 99% of the officers will be thankful you were forthright and helped keep a stressful and potentially dangerous situation from being even more so. Concealed weapons holders are NOT the problem. They have undergone rigorous background checks. More often than not, the permit holder will leave the encounter with little more than a warning. I have NEVER issued a citation to a CHL holder. They get warnings unless they are especially stupid. I have not come across anyone especially stupid.
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:12 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Common courtesy is dead? Put your self in the officer's shoes. Wouldn't you prefer to know who you are dealing with? LE is a dangerous job. It is made more dangerous by people with guns. Le is a stressful job. It is made more stressful by people who just do not think.

Yes, you are legally carrying. Trust me 99% of the officers will be thankful you were forthright and helped keep a stressful and potentially dangerous situation from being even more so. Concealed weapons holders are NOT the problem. They have undergone rigorous background checks. More often than not, the permit holder will leave the encounter with little more than a warning. I have NEVER issued a citation to a CHL holder. They get warnings unless they are especially stupid. I have not come across anyone especially stupid.
Ok that rips it... Next pull over I'm handing my CHL with my DL... If it gets me out of a ticket, I'll keep doing it. If not, ehh, back to following the letter of the law in my State.

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Old 04-15-2014, 04:14 AM   #108
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Let me put it another way. A traffic stop is a stressful situation for all involved. Stress causes adrenaline to surge into one's blood stream. Adrenaline is a dangerous drug that causes a number of physiological effects including tunnel vision, auditory exclusion (hearing gets worse), the deterioration of fine motor skills, increased heart rate/blod pressure, and can adversely affect judgement.

Are these symptoms you want the officer at your door to have? Bad decisions are made every day under the influence of adrenaline. If an officer stops ME, I want him to be calm and cool as a cucumber. My chances of surviving this contact go up astromically when adrenaline is NOT a part of the equation. Think about that
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:14 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Put your self in the officer's shoes. Wouldn't you prefer to know who you are dealing with?

They get warnings unless they are especially stupid. I have not come across anyone especially stupid.
I would prefer to know who I am dealing with; what will the LEO tell me about him/herself? Favorite caliber, shoe size, religious beliefs?


So noted on the warning; I will get out there at some point.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:33 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
Let me put it another way. A traffic stop is a stressful situation for all involved. Stress causes adrenaline to surge into one's blood stream. Adrenaline is a dangerous drug that causes a number of physiological effects including tunnel vision, auditory exclusion (hearing gets worse), the deterioration of fine motor skills, increased heart rate/blod pressure, and can adversely affect judgement.

Are these symptoms you want the officer at your door to have? Bad decisions are made every day under the influence of adrenaline. If an officer stops ME, I want him to be calm and cool as a cucumber. My chances of surviving this contact go up astromically when adrenaline is NOT a part of the equation. Think about that
Robo is 100% correct. Adrenaline is great for reflexes and usually less so for judgement. However, there is the question of WHEN and IF adrenaline is triggered. A rookie cop on his first stop is going to have adrenaline flowing from the time he lights up the offender, whereas a veteran cop might not trigger the adrenal gland even if he puts up a little bit of a chase. I used to drive for a living, so using scales, checkpoints and getting pulled over put me in contact with LEOs all of the time. I've been on the side of the road swapping stories and laughing with a LEO at a traffic stop, absolutely no stress and adrenaline involved, but I've also had the stressed-out rookie who was nervous and pushy just because he was new. You never know who your going to get, and making it as easy as possible is beneficial for everybody involved.

I know that some posters here are making the point for the very small minority of officers that are abusive of power and throw around their authority. Human nature says there is no way 100% of people can be good, and occasionally it happens that an LEO goes astray. But if you think there is something you can do to keep him from imposing his will, you're probably mistaken. A corrupt man can twist anything against you if he has a mind to, regardless of profession. In a corrupt person's mind:

* If you don't notify, you've got something to hide;
* If you notify in a state that isn't required, you're threatening him;
* If you ask a question, you're arguing with him;
* Any argument at all and there is an odor similar to marijuana coming from the vehicle - time to search!

Any action at all interpreted by a person with a bad attitude is going to be seen as a negative, so the only thing you can do is obey the law as you know it and get through the encounter. Luckily, technology has made this kind of behavior amongst LEOs very rare these days and not something the general public has to worry about. I always treat LEOs as a fellow professional and I've never been sorry for it.
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