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Old 04-15-2009, 01:59 PM   #21
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I'm going out on a limb here... Any sear on any pistol can be re-worked for a lighter pull. But in a derringer platform, I wouldn't recommend it. The high pull rate on your derringer is there for a REASON! It forces the shooter to grip the derringer tight in your hand, in order to fire it. I lowered the pull rate on my NAA .22 Magnum and I didn't like it, as it fired too easy and I didn't grip it as strong as I should have. The pistol tends to roll upward in to the web of your hand if you don't grip it tight enough.

So, get used to a heavy pull. Have your wife dry-fire it over and over again. You'll be surprized how quickly she will get accustomed to it.
She bought a Kel-Tec in 9mm instead,lol
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:37 PM   #22
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She bought a Kel-Tec in 9mm instead,lol
That'll work. I bought my wife a Kel Tec P3AT, it's OK I suppose.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:57 PM   #23
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Default .22 Derringer, 3AT KelTek, and NAA Black Widow

Two Cents Worth - No More

Years ago I inherited a Hi-Standard .22 LR break/action derringer and proceded to fire 4,000 rounds at an indoor range over several months, sometimes 500 per day of WallMart Specials. At the end I could put better then 50% of my shots into a piece of typing paper at 50 ft free-hand. Then the firing pin broke, but I consider it my best ever performance.

The 3AT is light, very poweful for its weight, but I could not hit a bale of hay at 15 feet. Worse, I could not get well practiced because, simply, 4,000 rounds would probably wear out five of them - I've already gone through two.

Today I took the new five round revolver Black Widow .22 WMR to the range and am well pleased. After less then 100 rounds bench rest I achieved a two inch, nine round patern at thirty feet with one 3 inch flyer with Remington 40grn JHP. Its my new best friend, and easier carry then the 3AT.

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Old 05-13-2009, 02:12 AM   #24
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Two Cents Worth - No More

Years ago I inherited a Hi-Standard .22 LR break/action derringer and proceded to fire 4,000 rounds at an indoor range over several months, sometimes 500 per day of WallMart Specials. At the end I could put better then 50% of my shots into a piece of typing paper at 50 ft free-hand. Then the firing pin broke, but I consider it my best ever performance.

The 3AT is light, very poweful for its weight, but I could not hit a bale of hay at 15 feet. Worse, I could not get well practiced because, simply, 4,000 rounds would probably wear out five of them - I've already gone through two.

Today I took the new five round revolver Black Widow .22 WMR to the range and am well pleased. After less then 100 rounds bench rest I achieved a two inch, nine round patern at thirty feet with one 3 inch flyer with Remington 40grn JHP. Its my new best friend, and easier carry then the 3AT.
I carry this little jewel quite often. It shoots great and fairly accurate. It has a good variety of ammo available too!


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Old 05-13-2009, 03:13 AM   #25
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Default Pocket guns

Derringers are fun to shoot, but for about the same size, you could get a Beretta Tomcat .32 or a KelTec P3AT in .380 with six or seven shots. I've wondered about the .22Mag mini revolvers myself. I might get one just for fun.
Anyone know the effectiveness of .22Mag against dogs?

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Old 05-13-2009, 12:15 PM   #26
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Derringers are fun to shoot, but for about the same size, you could get a Beretta Tomcat .32 or a KelTec P3AT in .380 with six or seven shots. I've wondered about the .22Mag mini revolvers myself. I might get one just for fun.
Anyone know the effectiveness of .22Mag against dogs?
.22Mag is very potent, but it's a small diameter bullet. I have a P3AT Kel Tec (.380). However, my NAA .22 Mag is smaller and pocket hides better. My .22 Mag has a louder and sharper crack than my P3AT.

You should consider Derringers as "novelties", and it wouldn't be a good choice in a shoot-out. Although it would be a great "stick it in their face and fire" surprize weapon.

I like my NAA Derringer... But I'll grab my CZ75B .40 S&W first.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:11 PM   #27
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Default The Most Cadaver Per Ounce Of CCW

Five Cents of Research - Why I chose NAA Black Widow .22Mag for CWW over the more powerful mini .32ACP and .380ACP weapons.

1) I would use those if I could reliably reach out and touch somebody at fifty feet. Perhaps a bale of hay at 15 feet might be in danger from my KelTech 3AT. But the gun will not stand up to enough shooting to find out.

After 100 rounds through the Black Widow, however, I am confident a 50ft head shot is within reach with enough practice. Further, I believe the .22Mag is roughly equivalent to the .32ACP in terminal ballistics, but accurate out much further.

2) The big secret, however, is the little .32 first round stop percentatage - as calculated by actual cadaver census - is not all that shabby: 66% versus 83% for the 9mm. Notice the Snubby .38 Special comes in at 65%.

Stopping Power

1) Winchester 9mm Luger 83% 421 Shootings
2) Federal .380ACP 71% 96 Shootings
3) Winchester .32ACP 66% 151 Shootings
4) Federal .38 Special 65% 77 Shootings
5) .22 CCI Stinger 38% 465 Shootings
6) .25 Winchester 27% 204 Shootings

I have gone through the NAA balistics for all hollow point rounds chambered for .32ACP, as well as both .22MAG and .22LR for the NAA Black Widow, and will see if I can't get some detail out next week. My general summary is this: Its The Ammunition! For instance, the lowest power factor for a LRHP is 32,000. The highest power factor for the MAG is about 44,000. But there is a LOT of overlap.

This is actually a Very Good Thing. It means you can find a .22LR with close enough ballistics to the MAG for real cheap practice, then transition to the better terminal performance MAG round for CCW rather easily.

General Summary. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. A few years ago I found a box of rimmed centerfire .32 Police Posiitives. How many police would use a .32 wheel gun today? Maybe they knew something we have forgotten. Specifically, if you shoot a bad guy with any sort of firearm, it is a very bad thing for the bad guy.

After all, wasn't it John Browning his very own self who invented the .25ACP.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:51 PM   #28
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them little 5shot NAA's are very accurate over most the derringers out there...a few years back i bought a couple of these (shooter arms) derringers.they are solid brass frames and barrels...single shot .32cal B.P. at the time you could buy 22lr barrel inserts and just by drilling the out the brass barrel on the B.P. pistol with a 5/16 drill bit...you had yourself a neat little single shot rimfire derringer...yeck for 80.00 bucks plus 5bucks for a barrel...you couldnt beat it..or atleast i thought it was a good deal at the time?of course i bought a few of the barrels and now have misplaced them somewhere?FAC of america had these so if anyone out there bought any of them barrels and have an extra one for sale...let me know...



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Old 05-14-2009, 04:59 PM   #29
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Default Upcomming Mouse-Gun Balistic Comparison

I promised a ballistics summary gathered from the North American Arms company (NAA) web site. This is my first posting and includes 1) a list of statistics to be posted later; and 2) a discussion on why I chose to use Power Factor insead of ft/lbs of energy in the comparison.

SECTION A - List of Ballistics to be Posted Later
A) 32ACP Guardian - six different rounds
B) 22WMR Hollow point Black Widow - six different rounds
C) 22LR Hollow point Black Widow - about ten different rounds

SECTION B - Why Power Factor (PF) instead of ft/lbs? PF is calculated by simply multiplying the bullet weight in grains times muzzle velocity divided by 1,000. I decided on PF for several reasons. First, from personal experiment I believe it is a more accurate measure of effectiveness.

Specifically, I did this exercise comparing a 30 grain hypervelocity bullet with a relatively high energy coeficient with a 60 grain of substantially less energy. I stacked a couple of 2x4s and shot two solid point rounds through them point blank out of a Phoenix .22 autoloader with [I think] a five inch barrel. The first round was a CCI hypervelocity round of about 30 grains in weight. It made a nice clean little hole in both front and back of the first board, and burried itself up to its heel in another neat little hole of the second board.

The second round was a 60 grain Aquilla SSS. The results were dramatically different. Like the CCI, it made a nice little hole in the front of the first board. However, the very ragged hole in the backside was the size of a finger nail - roughly 1/2 inch across. Further, the very very long bullet burried itself sideways to the same depth as the diminutive CCI.

I also chose PW because that is what the International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC) uses to establish competion categories. These include Major and Minor classes with PF of 160 and 125 respectively, according to this 2001 discussion:
Less is More: The IPSC Power Factor | American Handgunner | Find Articles at BNET

For example, a 230 grain 45ACP at 800 ft/sec would place that round in the major class with a PF of 184. For comparison sake, the highest PF I found on the NNA site for 32ACP, 22WMR, and 22LR was 56, 44, and 36, respectively. The final reason I used PF is simply because it was the easiest to summarized. Theoretically, I could have included ft/lbs along side PF, but that would have been too much work!

Perhaps I will get the actual summary out in a few days.
[I welcome corrections, critique and or additions etc]

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Old 05-14-2009, 05:10 PM   #30
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Default PS - Aquilla 60grn Failure

This round performed well out of my Phoenix, and, acording to this Black Widow review, it also performed well. North American Arms' Black Widow

However, at the range I shot about 15 rounds out of my Black Widow with total failure. Not only did they sometimes missfire, but when they did fire, they seemed to be powered by nothing more then primer blast. I was actually able to pluck individual rounds out of the target board. Very quiet, but very ineffective. They were old so I may try again.

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